New sponsor for british chess championship

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:54 am

NickFaulks wrote: The point is that a player rated 2049 is not eligible for the lowest rating prize, however well they perform.
There's a perverse logic which says that it's "unfair" to allow a player rated 1950 to compete with a player rated 2050 for a "W-We" based rating prize.

The simple solution is to abandon the "W-We" concept and just trust the pairing system to produce pairings that are sufficiently fair over a nine round tournament that the absolute scores can be the first tie break. It's far easier for the participants to understand, not that that matters to arbiters.

NickFaulks
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:03 am

Roger de Coverly wrote: The simple solution is to abandon the "W-We" concept and just trust the pairing system to produce pairings that are sufficiently fair over a nine round tournament that the absolute scores can be the first tie break.
Far too simple, it would never catch on. If they must retain the "W-We" approach, at least allow anyone to get a prize, subject to a We based on a 2050 minimum rating. That would have the merit of even greater complexity.
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Nick Grey
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Nick Grey » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:09 am

The point is they can play & pay the fee - most will have qualified.

The bulk are juniors & eligible for junior prizes, most of the rest are old gits and eligible for that. It is very similar to London Chess Classic in the fide open & on English Knock-out I'm sure that was fine too.

Roger is now down to 1979 so even I do not know why he is making a fuss other than a personal crusade which is unhelpful.

I also doubt if there will be any detailed discussion at Council.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:12 am

NickFaulks wrote: If they must retain the "W-We" approach, at least allow anyone to get a prize, subject to a We based on a 2050 minimum rating. That would have the merit of even greater complexity.
Complex yes, arguably fair to an extent. Certainly fairer than total exclusion.

Actually not so difficult to implement. You just have a version of the results software hacked to give everyone a minimum rating of 2050.

Also a simple eligibility change
For the purpose of grading prizes, players rated under 2050 are considered to be 2050.

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David Shepherd
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by David Shepherd » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:13 am

My view is that it is clearly unfair to the lower rated players to exclude them from the rating prizes.

However, I think the rating prizes as they have been set are not intended to be fair to the lower rated players, the intention is to attract strong players and enhance the competition. In many ways this in turn is good for the lower rated players as they have an improved chance of playing highly rated players, which is probably why most of them are entering the tournament.

Ps Well done to the ECF for obtaining the sponsorship.
Last edited by David Shepherd on Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:16 am

Nick Grey wrote:I also doubt if there will be any detailed discussion at Council.
There should be though. Unlike the London Classic, which is a private body, the ECF should be answerable to its membership.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:19 am

David Shepherd wrote:In many ways this in turn is good for the lower rated players as they have an improved chance of playing highly rated players, which is probably why most of them are entering the tournament.
That's something of a sick joke given my recent experiences in the British. It adds insult to injury to be excluded from rating prizes.

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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:10 am

There should be though.
Not so. These are operational matters that are within the gift of the Board. None of that prevents requisitionists bringing forward whatever they want to have discussed at Council meetings.

By "the ECF" you presumably mean the Board. But "the ECF" also comprises the Council representatives, who are also accountable to members and who appoint the Board on that basis. If Council representatives don't like what the Board is doing, their remedy is to remove the directors and appoint new ones in their stead.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:49 am

Mike Truran wrote: If Council representatives don't like what the Board is doing, their remedy is to remove the directors and appoint new ones in their stead.
That's far too drastic a measure for dealing with pig headed decisions by individual directors. It's also much less effective as a sanction now the Directors have got agreement to three year terms.

In terms of the debate about OMOV and other representation systems, it's possible to be relaxed about who holds the votes. What' can be more important is what they are allowed to vote on.

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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Mike Truran » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:02 am

It's also much less effective as a sanction now the Directors have got agreement to three year terms.
Again, not so. Directors can be removed at any time.

As I said above, representatives can vote on whatever matter they want to vote on. All they have to do is requisition a motion if they think that a matter that the Board thinks is in its gift if in fact not in its gift.

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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by David Sedgwick » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:30 am

Mike Truran wrote:As I said above, representatives can vote on whatever matter they want to vote on. All they have to do is requisition a motion if they think that a matter that the Board thinks is in its gift if in fact not in its gift.
If they want to do that for the forthcoming Council Meeting on Saturday 22nd April, the deadline for submission is now exactly one week away.

Isn't it about time that a notice appeared on the ECF website to that effect?

Roger Lancaster
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger Lancaster » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:39 am

Despite my regard for the other Roger, I feel he's pursuing the wrong argument here. Sure, there's always room for constructive criticism but, in the last analysis, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

NickFaulks
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by NickFaulks » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:48 am

Roger Lancaster wrote: he who pays the piper calls the tune.
Just to be clear, are you talking about the ECF Board or the sponsor?
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:01 am

Roger Lancaster wrote: Sure, there's always room for constructive criticism but, in the last analysis, he who pays the piper calls the tune.
You think then that excluding players from the competition for rating prizes is a sponsor decision? Isn't it more likely a hobby horse of one or two current directors in a position to influence the small print of the prize list?

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Michael Farthing
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Re: New sponsor for british chess championship

Post by Michael Farthing » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:29 am

I have every confidence that Council will discuss this matter as much as it deserves to be.

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