Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Debate directly related to English Chess Federation matters.
Michael Flatt
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Michael Flatt » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:16 pm

Andrew,
You may recall that I sent you an email on 8th January 2017 (copied to the SCCU President), regarding the difficulty in making nominations for the ECF competition before the SCCU Championships, from which teams qualified, had been completed.

I would suggest that the SCCU President acted correctly in reminding you of the agreement she had negotiated, on behalf of the SCCU, with the Director of Home Chess.

I further suggest that the difficulty, in this instance, lies with the lack of communications within the ECF.

Nick Grey
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:22 pm

Ok perhaps my reaction was a little over the top and this is just a bun fight for a ned position when perhaps ECF could want more than one.

Either way it would be nice if Peter can expand on what he can do for us. Or answer questions. Generally I would expect anyone standing for election would play more games is a season than I particularly as I had been unwell for half of last season.

As for County Championship fancy holding the meeting on 14th to clash with the first stages of SCCU county competition? Why not organise it the week before. :)

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:39 pm

Nick Grey wrote:Either way it would be nice if Peter can expand on what he can do for us. Or answer questions. Generally I would expect anyone standing for election would play more games is a season than I particularly as I had been unwell for half of last season.
Sorry to hear that you have been unwell. What relevance does number of games played have for this or other posts though? Once you start getting involved with the ECF (or any other voluntary work) then I would expect people to play less as it would be taking up their spare time.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Michael Flatt » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:44 pm

Nick Grey wrote: As for County Championship fancy holding the meeting on 14th to clash with the first stages of SCCU county competition? Why not organise it the week before. :)
Yes, that is unfortunate. When arranging the SCCU County fixtures I avoided known dates, such as 4NCL, major Championships and Congresses. The date of the ECF AGM had not been fixed, and I guessed the wrong weekend to leave free.
SCCU County match fixtures have to be published before the end of August.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:47 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote: What relevance does number of games played have for this or other posts though?
There's a case of sorts for an activity requirement, even if only in the eyes of the two hundred people or so entitled to vote. In the case of this candidate, I would think he achieves this by being an organiser.

I don't think the experience of the ECF in electing people who don't or never play chess has been particularly positive.

Nick Grey
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:50 pm

I believe it is fantastic that ECF directors, officers and representatives play chess regularly as well as the thousands of hours devoted to organisation each year. Particularly those that run team, clubs, leagues, congresses, unions, organisations and represent direct membership, as well as grade our games. Many do an awful lot whether they have day jobs or not and that includes coaches and parents.

Anyway a small table below on numbers of games as well as votes on the voting register. I think that is fair as representing organisations and activities.
From those standing or re-standing on Oct 14th and apologies if I have missed anyone out.

Julie Denning 34 7
Peter Hornsby 11 1
Mike Gunn 79 3
David Eustace 0 1
Malcolm Pein 16 1
Alex Holowczak 42 2

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:00 pm

Nick Grey wrote:I believe it is fantastic that ECF directors, officers and representatives play chess regularly as well as the thousands of hours devoted to organisation each year. Particularly those that run team, clubs, leagues, congresses, unions, organisations and represent direct membership, as well as grade our games. Many do an awful lot whether they have day jobs or not and that includes coaches and parents.

Anyway a small table below on numbers of games as well as votes on the voting register. I think that is fair as representing organisations and activities.
From those standing or re-standing on Oct 14th and apologies if I have missed anyone out.

Julie Denning 34 7
Peter Hornsby 11 1
Mike Gunn 79 3
David Eustace 0 1
Malcolm Pein 16 1
Alex Holowczak 42 2
That may be so but I would have thought, to take Malcolm as an example, organising the London Chess Classic and Chess in Schools and Communities would count for more than playing a handful of extra games in terms of suitability to his current roles.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by David Sedgwick » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:48 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:I further suggest that the difficulty, in this instance, lies with the lack of communications within the ECF.
Alex Holowczak graciously accepted responsibility for that. That would have been the end of the matter had Andrew Zigmond not decided, months later, to make the matter public with the bizarre suggestion that Julie Denning had acted unfairly.

This is all a bit unfair - on Peter Hornsby. There may be reasons why Council should prefer him to Julie Denning as a Non-Executive Director of the ECF. If there are, let them be posted on this thread.

Peter Hornsby
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Peter Hornsby » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:14 pm

I would prefer to focus on discussing my own candidacy but with regards to Julie there is no doubt that she is a fine candidate and has fulfilled the role well and if re-elected she would continue to do so (and I'm sure she can speak for herself). It is a pity that my nomination could be interpreted by some as an 'attack' on her when it certainly isn't, I'm of the old-fashioned belief that everyone no-matter how well they have served the ECF face contested elections for a healthy democratic process! Another of my beliefs is never to give up so despite falling short last year I'm determined to run again as elections have consequences, it’s an attitude that has served well as such persistence has paid great dividends for 2020 Chess and other matters I have been involved with. If all else fails its very pleasing to see that a debate is being had!
However, what I think we can all agree on is that I would do a 'different job' and offer a unique perspective to the ECF Board. To use a footballing analogy, to have a successful team you need a mix of different type of players and I believe that whilst individually each board member are good players too many of them play the same position!

It is a discussion for another day really (though I'm delighted its being raised) as to whether there should be a new position on the board or otherwise which would match my (and other’s similar) skill sets. I know several younger people who are fantastic organizers that were tempted to run this year but decided not to because they didn't feel that there was a role on the board which would play to their strengths even if they did manage to cause an upset as outsiders. I am representing them and the 'movement' which I stand for as much as myself.
Questions have been raised at my relative lack of experience, however it is very difficult to be both young and experienced and my track record of success in what I've achieved (with the help of others I have got on board to help me as I must stress) lends credence to the view that there is no reason I could not be a successful asset for the ECF if elected in the NED position, and there are few around my age (Alex Holowczak being a notable exception) who have more experience in the Chess world than I do.

When I referred to the Yougov statistic I am considering the countless number of people I see at fresher's fairs who tell me that they love the game but haven't played in years, just play online or haven't even played at a competitive ECF tournament. Though 2020 isn't graded yet (if we become big enough I'd love it to be) it is an ECF recognised competition and circa 50% of our participants are non-ECF members so we're trying our hardest to get them involved with the organisation and hopefully some of them can run/volunteer for positions soon. My scrutiny and oversight is concerned with this central point, why are there so many people who can play Chess staying in the shadows and what can we do to bring them out?

The only role that the ECF offered me was from Alex Holowczak as I understand to help at BUCA which I said I'd be happy to do, however I had to turn it down eventually because I was required to play board three for Durham's second team a possibility I had warned him about (scoring 2-2-1 so my selection was justified) and I apologised to him and we had an amicable conversation at the event itself.

And Jack I'd be more than happy to pass on those contact details if you email me at [email protected] and I wish you the best of luck, but I should warn you that I haven't met a few of them yet as 2020 doesn't quite have the ability to pay for international flights to the US...yet!
Founder and Director of 2020 Chess
www.2020chess.com

Nick Grey
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Nick Grey » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:20 pm

Lawrence my comment starting particularly was to pick up this type of item - many do a lot, particularly Malcolm, as do you and many others.

As long as Council do not vote none of the above on those seeking re-election that is fine by me.

I will not be looking for live coverage of the 14th Oct meeting on the basis that the SCCU stage county controller guessed the wrong weekend to start the competition.

Very unfair for both Peter and Julie.

And Peter thanks for posting.

Peter Hornsby
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Peter Hornsby » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:29 pm

Nick Grey wrote:It looks like a North v South battle coming up. There are a lot of universities and young people in the South that play chess so the question it poses the question what has he done for them that will add value to this position. There are an awful lot of universities in the south.
Hi Nick, delighted to answer, please view the links below!

https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer ... 203rd.docx

https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer ... 205th.docx

https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer ... 208th.docx

And this is a society I set up at a university which I didn't even attend:

https://www.facebook.com/St-Marys-Chess ... 533344006/

During this process I have become well aware of what these universities would like from the ECF and English Chess in general, and if you check out my Facebook page you can see that quite a few students support my bid, though we wait for the eventual outcome!
Founder and Director of 2020 Chess
www.2020chess.com

Mick Norris
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:02 pm

Peter Hornsby wrote:Questions have been raised at my relative lack of experience, however it is very difficult to be both young and experienced and my track record of success in what I've achieved (with the help of others I have got on board to help me as I must stress) lends credence to the view that there is no reason I could not be a successful asset for the ECF if elected in the NED position
Hi Peter, I don't doubt that you could be an asset for the ECF, but I am still want to know why you would be suitable for the specific role of NED?
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:02 pm

Peter Hornsby wrote:The only role that the ECF offered me was from Alex Holowczak as I understand to help at BUCA which I said I'd be happy to do, however I had to turn it down eventually because I was required to play board three for Durham's second team a possibility I had warned him about (scoring 2-2-1 so my selection was justified) and I apologised to him and we had an amicable conversation at the event itself.
In the immediate aftermath of the Council meeting, I spoke to you and asked if you'd like to be involved in some way with my Directorship. You said that you wouldn't have time due to your other commitments, including your work at university and the time commitment needed to run 2020 Chess.

I thought that was fair enough, and so mentioned BUCA, given I suspected you'd be there anyway. You doubted whether you'd be in a team at that point
due to the fact that Durham runs an internal event to see who makes the teams, but I understood that you made the mistake of playing well enough in that to qualify to play for one of your teams. :P

You then asked if someone else could come along to shadow me at BUCA, to see what I was doing as the organiser of the event; but that someone then also fell through due to other commitments.

If BUCA had a pound for every time something happened because of "other commitments" that means a situation has changed, and BUCA decided to pay me all of these pounds, I'd be writing this e-mail from the beach of an island in the Bahamas.

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:58 pm

Michael Flatt wrote:Andrew,
You may recall that I sent you an email on 8th January 2017 (copied to the SCCU President), regarding the difficulty in making nominations for the ECF competition before the SCCU Championships, from which teams qualified, had been completed.

I would suggest that the SCCU President acted correctly in reminding you of the agreement she had negotiated, on behalf of the SCCU, with the Director of Home Chess.

I further suggest that the difficulty, in this instance, lies with the lack of communications within the ECF.
I regret that I cannot actually find this email, nor can I recall it, although I don't dispute that such an email was sent. I still don't understand why the matter wasn't raised with me in the first instance. Instead I was copied into an email addressed to Alex in which I was referred to by name (`Andrew Zigmond is clearly not aware ... please can you correct this`). I thought it was slightly discourteous at the time and still do now; had Alex not replied before I did I might well have said something. But I am convinced no offence was intended, it is a bit pointless of me to bring it up six months after the fact and everybody involved has got far better things to do with their time. I would also add that at least the email wasn't malicious in any way, which is not true of every email I've received during my tenure as county championships controller.
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own

Andrew Zigmond
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Re: Peter Hornsby for ECF : Tomorrow's Candidate Today!

Post by Andrew Zigmond » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:23 am

Peter Hornsby wrote: It is a discussion for another day really (though I'm delighted its being raised) as to whether there should be a new position on the board or otherwise which would match my (and other’s similar) skill sets. I know several younger people who are fantastic organizers that were tempted to run this year but decided not to because they didn't feel that there was a role on the board which would play to their strengths even if they did manage to cause an upset as outsiders. I am representing them and the 'movement' which I stand for as much as myself.
Questions have been raised at my relative lack of experience, however it is very difficult to be both young and experienced and my track record of success in what I've achieved (with the help of others I have got on board to help me as I must stress) lends credence to the view that there is no reason I could not be a successful asset for the ECF if elected in the NED position, and there are few around my age (Alex Holowczak being a notable exception) who have more experience in the Chess world than I do.
I'm not sure whether Peter would consider 36 young (I didn't when I was his age) but I share his concern about the missing 18-30 demographic in chess (my club currently has two players in this age range). While, in the same way as secondary school chess, there are blockers that are out of our control (the decline of the traditional mon-fri job, the rise of internet chess) I would be interested to know what Peter thinks could and should be done differently to keep twenty somethings playing and recruit new ones to the game.

I would also be interested to know if Peter feels there is a disconnect between what chess activity there is at university level and the wider chess community. With my Yorkshire hat on, I did receive an email recently from a local university organiser asking whether those involved in an event similarly named to one he was looking to organise could change their name (the event was first held in 2000 and has nothing to do with me anyway).

Looking at the wider picture the ECF does have a number of managers responsible for specific demographics. A notable example was the position of manager of women's chess which has now been upgraded to a director position; however it was noted in the board minutes that the role had no budget and as such would be purely strategic. The same is almost certainly true of the manager of disabled chess position and would be the case with a manager of youth chess role which Peter might be suited to. Is there funding that could be allocated to these positions in order to allow the managers the ability to develop chess within their remit?
Controller - Yorkshire League
Chairman - Harrogate Chess Club
All views expressed entirely my own