English-resident strong chess players

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
George Szaszvari
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by George Szaszvari » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:14 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I found a little snippet in a book I was reading recently about an English-resident strong chess player (i.e. those not born in the UK, but who were among the strongest in the country at various times), and was wondering if anyone has more information on him (the player in question here was Ernst Klein) or other players of similar background? Ideally, I'd like to end up with a list of strong players that emigrated here from other countries, along with an idea of their birth/death years, when they arrived here, when they were active, and their playing strength, and participation in British teams (if any) and other aspects of British chess (by which I mean England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland)....
Hmm, Emanuel Lasker lived in Britain for a while (Botvinnik describes in one of his books how he sought Lasker's
residence and all the houses looked alike: "peas in a pod"). I met Koenig's daughter occasionally (courtesy of
dining with the wonderful Faulkner family, who had two kids at Dulwich Prep) a music teacher at the time, who
didn't know much about chess, but had some nice memories of her dad. Bob Wade was a Kiwi, and Max Fuller,
from Oz, was in blighty for a while during the 70s.... was Chandler from down that way too?

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:05 pm

Thanks for the suggestions so far. Some of the more recent ones have been mentioned before, here:

http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... 5&start=37

It is more those from before the era of titles and ratings that I'm interested in.

Was Lasker's short stay in England in 1935?

Keith Arkell
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Keith Arkell » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:54 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I found a little snippet in a book I was reading recently about an English-resident strong chess player (i.e. those not born in the UK, but who were among the strongest in the country at various times)
William Watson (born in Baghdad,Iraq)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:35 am

Keith Arkell wrote:William Watson (born in Baghdad,Iraq)
You learn something new every day!

Ian Kingston
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Ian Kingston » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:55 am

Yasser Seirawan lived in England briefly (in 1978). His mother was a nurse from Nottingham, and the young Seirawan played for Bulwell in the Notts League. During my time as editor of the NCA newsletter I asked him if he had any recollection of that period, and he sent me the three games that he played, with light notes. They can be found at http://www.nottschess.org/2007_08/pdf/018.pdf. (It was the loser of the first of those games, Alan Morrey, who tipped me off about this.)

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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by AustinElliott » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:46 am

George Szaszvari wrote: Hmm, Emanuel Lasker lived in Britain for a while (Botvinnik describes in one of his books how he sought Lasker's
residence and all the houses looked alike: "peas in a pod").
This visit by Botvinnik would be 1934-5, when Botvinnik played at Hastings. According to Wikipedia the Laskers left Germany in 1933 when the Nazis came to power, and lived in the UK until they relocated to the USSR some time in 1935, so probably the best part of two years The Laskers were almost certainly living in London, as Botvinnik apparently mentions talking to Lasker 'in London" after the tournament,. This was when Lasker told him that he [Botvinnik] ought to arrive well before a tournament started in order to acclimatize properly, something Botvinnik took to heart. One imagines Botvinnik likely played a part in persuading the Laskers to relocate to Moscow, as by the mid-30s Botvinnik was a key figure in the Soviet chess effort and had patrons in the Soviet hierarchy.

1933-5 was actually not Lasker's first period living in the UK. He spent some time in Manchester in 1901 as a temporary lecturer in Mathematics at the University, most likely after he had submitted his Maths doctoral Thesis in Erlangen.

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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by LozCooper » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:10 am

Keith Arkell wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I found a little snippet in a book I was reading recently about an English-resident strong chess player (i.e. those not born in the UK, but who were among the strongest in the country at various times)
William Watson (born in Baghdad,Iraq)
He kept that quiet! :shock:

George Szaszvari
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by George Szaszvari » Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:58 am

AustinElliott wrote:
George Szaszvari wrote: Hmm, Emanuel Lasker lived in Britain for a while (Botvinnik describes in one of his books how he sought Lasker's
residence and all the houses looked alike: "peas in a pod").
This visit by Botvinnik would be 1934-5, when Botvinnik played at Hastings. According to Wikipedia the Laskers left Germany in 1933 when the Nazis came to power, and lived in the UK until they relocated to the USSR some time in 1935, so probably the best part of two years The Laskers were almost certainly living in London, as Botvinnik apparently mentions talking to Lasker 'in London" after the tournament,. This was when Lasker told him that he [Botvinnik] ought to arrive well before a tournament started in order to acclimatize properly, something Botvinnik took to heart. One imagines Botvinnik likely played a part in persuading the Laskers to relocate to Moscow, as by the mid-30s Botvinnik was a key figure in the Soviet chess effort and had patrons in the Soviet hierarchy.

1933-5 was actually not Lasker's first period living in the UK. He spent some time in Manchester in 1901 as a temporary lecturer in Mathematics at the University, most likely after he had submitted his Maths doctoral Thesis in Erlangen.
Hannak's biography of Lasker (one of the few chess books I still have) mentions that Lasker had a break from
competitive chess between 1896 and 1899, during which time he delivered a series of acclaimed math lectures
in Manchester, but without precise dates, simply saying "he had been living in England most of that time." Lasker
won the London 1899 tournament and the Paris 1900 tournament, and by January 1902 was back in Germany at
Erlangen University. Just reading quickly through the subsequent chapters I find no mention, never mind dates,
regarding Lasker's residency in England during the 1930s. Tim Harding, where are you? ;0)

George Szaszvari
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by George Szaszvari » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:20 pm

George Szaszvari wrote:
AustinElliott wrote:
George Szaszvari wrote: Hmm, Emanuel Lasker lived in Britain for a while (Botvinnik describes in one of his books how he sought Lasker's
residence and all the houses looked alike: "peas in a pod").
This visit by Botvinnik would be 1934-5, when Botvinnik played at Hastings. According to Wikipedia the Laskers left Germany in 1933 when the Nazis came to power, and lived in the UK until they relocated to the USSR some time in 1935, so probably the best part of two years The Laskers were almost certainly living in London, as Botvinnik apparently mentions talking to Lasker 'in London" after the tournament,. This was when Lasker told him that he [Botvinnik] ought to arrive well before a tournament started in order to acclimatize properly, something Botvinnik took to heart. One imagines Botvinnik likely played a part in persuading the Laskers to relocate to Moscow, as by the mid-30s Botvinnik was a key figure in the Soviet chess effort and had patrons in the Soviet hierarchy.

1933-5 was actually not Lasker's first period living in the UK. He spent some time in Manchester in 1901 as a temporary lecturer in Mathematics at the University, most likely after he had submitted his Maths doctoral Thesis in Erlangen.
Hannak's biography of Lasker (one of the few chess books I still have) mentions that Lasker had a break from
competitive chess between 1896 and 1899, during which time he delivered a series of acclaimed math lectures
in Manchester, but without precise dates, simply saying "he had been living in England most of that time." Lasker
won the London 1899 tournament and the Paris 1900 tournament, and by January 1902 was back in Germany at
Erlangen University. Just reading quickly through the subsequent chapters I find no mention, never mind dates,
regarding Lasker's residency in England during the 1930s. Tim Harding, where are you? ;0)
Chapter 28 "Holding His Own in Moscow" [referring to Moscow 1935] of the Hannak biography refers to how Lasker
begged the bridge master and author Mr Culbertson, to give him an examination so Lasker could be awarded the
bridge teaching certificate Culbertson awarded to wannabe bridge teachers. Lasker needed it to help him gain more
pupils to help make ends meet. Culbertson, an admirer of Lasker's, was embarrassed by the circumstances and gave
Lasker an honorary certificate. This supposedly happened in London, but no date other than being in the chapter
about 1935.

Colin Patterson
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Colin Patterson » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:30 am

Jim Plaskett (born in Cyprus!)

I believe Daniel Harrwitz (1823-1884), Isidor Gunsberg (1854-1930) and Richard Teichmann (1868-1925) are three others.

Speaking of Nottingham, Fernand Gobet (a Swiss IM) was there for a while and still resides in the UK I think.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:58 pm

Colin Patterson wrote:Speaking of Nottingham, Fernand Gobet (a Swiss IM) was there for a while and still resides in the UK I think.
This is fascinating. Another random name (no offense to Mr Gobet, it reflects more on my lack of knowledge of titled chess players and authors) that throws up really interesting stuff when you start looking:

There is a Fernand Gobet who works at Brunel University. I don't know how common a name Gobet is, but it appears to be this Gobet who is the co-author of these two books:

Moves in mind: The psychology of board games (2004)
Perception and Memory in Chess: Heuristics of the Professional Eye (1996)

Apparently a Fernand Gobet was beaten 4-0 in a match at Fribourg in 1987 by none other than Boris Spassky.

The most fascinating bit though is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHREST

"CHREST (Chunk Hierarchy and REtrieval STructures) is a symbolic cognitive architecture based on the concepts of limited attention, limited short-term memories, and chunking. Learning, which is essential in the architecture, is modelled as the development of a network of nodes (chunks) which are connected in various ways. [...] CHREST is developed by Fernand Gobet at Brunel University and Peter C. Lane at the University of Hertfordshire."

Rating card is here:

http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=1300083

Again, I'm presuming these are all the same Gobet.

There is even an inactive ECF grading record:

http://grading.bcfservices.org.uk/getpl ... inactive=1

Last published grade was E-227 in 2003, with Nottingham University listed as the club (he worked there from 1996-2003).

From the Brunel page, it seems clear this is all the same person:

http://www.brunel.ac.uk/~hsstffg/

He is "Professor of Cognitive Psychology. School of Social Sciences, Brunel University".

It is worth reading that page to see how he is applying his research to chess.

I wonder how much chess features in current research worldwide?

Colin Patterson
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Colin Patterson » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:25 am

Yes indeed, Mr Gobet is a leading light in chess psychology among other things. He co-authored books/papers with Guillermo Campitelli when in Nottingham I believe, the latter being another past UK resident and strong chess player (Elo 2100+)

Gobet has, in his time, defeated a young Judit Polgar, an old Efim Geller, and a bunch of other strong players including Yudasin and Ftacnik.

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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Tim Harding » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:06 pm

As somebody invited me to contribute to this debate, I offer the following but do not claim it is anywhere near complete.

18th century:
1) Stamma (as was already mentioned);
2) Philidor (special case as he made several visits and was then trapped here by the Terror in the French Revolution and died in London).

Especially for the 19th century, which had many chess-playing immigrants and visitors, I would distinguish between:
a) Those who came to Britain and made it their permanent home (e.g. Gunsberg and Klein);
b) Those who died in Britain although their visits were never intended to be permanent (e.g. Labourdonnais);
c) Those who had long stays but eventually left again (e.g. Steinitz);
d) Those who were never permanent residents but spent several years based in the UK (e.g. Emanuel Lasker).

So in the 19th century:
a) Very large number, especially between the 1830s and 1870s. The most important were Horwitz, Löwenthal, Gunsberg, Zukertort, Hoffer (as a writer and organiser more than as a player), and Zytogorski. There were also numerous lesser players who ran chess resorts (J. H. Huttmann, Edward Löwe) or just played the game but were not professionals, e.g. Rosario Aspa, the musician Charles Halle, Sigismund Hamel, Franciscus Janssens, Steinkühler, and, arriving in the 1890s I think, Oscar Mueller. Maybe count here also James Mason who was Irish-American. Other long-stay Americans included James Mortimer and George Gossip.
b) Labourdonnais, Alexandre and probably others.
c) Falkbeer, Harrwitz, Steinitz, Rudolf Loman, Richard Teichmann all lived in London for substantial periods but ultimately left.
d) Before Emanuel Lasker (based in London about 1890-3, I think, but was frequently away), there was Kolisch (a couple of years circa 1860), and Philipp Hirschfeld (not sure how many years he was in England).

In the 20th century:
a) Apart from Ernst Klein, much discussed here already, Vera Menchik must be an outstanding example. Also consider Victor Buerger (family came from Russia before 1914), Imre König, Paul List, Dr H. G. Schenk and doubtless numerous other refugees from the Nazis. Then another wave after WW2 and in early 1950s, e.g. Kottnauer, Slade Milan (many times British correspondence champion: see my book) and Fazekas who has already been mentioned. Also Mieses was named at the start but how long did he live in the UK before he died? I have not tried to tink of players from Commonwealth countries but Bob Wade is an obvious case.
b) Cannot think right now of cases of players who died in the UK while on short or medium stays but doubtless there were some.
c) Seirawan (as a child), Max Fuller and Suba have been mentioned as people who had short periods of residence in the UK. There were probably a lot more. Tartakower is an interesting example: with the Free French during WW2. A special case is Wolfgang Heidenfeld (came to Ireland via South Africa but eventually retired to his native Germany and died there).
d) I expect there are many recent cases including people still living.
Also for the 20th/21st centuries I suppose there should be a new category (e) of strong female players who came to Britain and became UK citizens through marriage. Some have already been mentioned.
Tim Harding
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Author of 'Steinitz in London,' British Chess Literature to 1914', 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography', and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:52 pm

Tim Harding wrote:As somebody invited me to contribute to this debate, I offer the following but do not claim it is anywhere near complete.
It's a great start though! Many thanks for the names you give here. One of the problems is deciding where to stop. For the modern era, you can use titles and ratings as a cut-off of sorts, but for the earlier periods, I suppose it would be more a survey than anything claiming to be a complete listing. I suppose you could just use existing lists and just identify which meet the four residency criteria you proposed (a-d).
Tim Harding wrote:Then another wave after WW2 and in early 1950s, e.g. Kottnauer, Slade Milan (many times British correspondence champion: see my book) and Fazekas who has already been mentioned. Also Mieses was named at the start but how long did he live in the UK before he died?
Which book of yours are you referring to here? Is it Correspondence Chess in Britain and Ireland, 1824-1987? I hadn't even considered correspondence chess. I suspect there may be some problemists and endgame composers as well, who might not appear in records relating to OTB chess.

About Mieses, it seems he moved to England in the 1930s to escape Nazi persecution. I presume he lived here from that point until he died in 1954. Not sure what the best sources are for detailed biographical information on people like him and earlier chess personalities. Have books been published on chess eras and countries, rather than on individuals?

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Re: English-resident strong chess players

Post by Colin Patterson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:31 am

A few other candidates, depending upon your criteria for inclusion (as you say, the difficulty is where to stop ...);

Nicolai Jasnogrodsky (UKR), Julius du Mont (FRA), David Podhorzer (AUT), Brian Reilly (born France), George Alan Thomas (born Turkey), Dagne Ciuksyte (LIT), Stephen Francis Smith (CAN), David Friedgood (RSA), Louisa Matilda Fagan (ITA).

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