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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:39 pm 
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I've been looking back at previous forum threads that included posts about the history of the London Chess League, or some aspect of it (or indeed other London leagues and clubs), and am posting a couple of links here.

(1) Deceased clubs (about Hampstead and Islington, post is from January 2010)

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1364

(2) Details of a match from 1966 between Athenaeum and Imperial College (post is from December 2008)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=541&p=6308&hilit=history+london+league#p6308

(3) Not strictly London League, but a post on the Capes Trophy (post is from October 2009):

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1136&hilit=history+london+league

(4) Long thread on the London Central YMCA (aka CentYMCA) Chess Club (thread started January 2009)

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=602

(5) Details of several past Central London venues used in the London League

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1912&start=34

Does anyone know of any other good threads on aspects of the history of the London Chess League or clubs that played in the London Chess League, or of a general history of the London Chess League anywhere? Or indeed of other London leagues, with a generous definition for a London league (where would the boundary be drawn? Some overlap into London, others are entirely within London). Other leagues I can think of (or which I looked up) include:

(a) London Civil Service, Post Office & Municipal Chess League
(b) North Circular Chess League
(c) Thames Valley Chess League
(d) London Commercial Chess League
(e) London Chess League
(f) Central London Legal Chess League
(g) Middlesex Chess League
(h) Hammersmith & District Chess League
(i) London Banks Chess League
(j) Croydon & District Chess League
(k) Combined Bank & Insurance Chess League
(l) Hillingdon Borough Chess League

Those are the twelve that I think currently operate in and around London (some had different names in the past). Ten of them are listed on the ECF website's 'Clubs and Associations' page:

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=17

The Middlesex Chess League and the London Chess League aren't listed for some reason, presumably because the London League is a constituent unit of the ECF, and the Middlesex Chess League is presumably county based, but still, you would have thought that the ECF would try and list all the leagues in one place. Currently, if someone clicks on "Clubs and Associations" and then "Leagues and other Associations" they might miss out completely on the existence of the London Chess League and the Middlesex Chess League.

Are there any other leagues with clubs with premises within Greater London? And can anyone think of examples of leagues that operated within Greater London in the past that no longer exist or merged or changed names?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Are there any other leagues with clubs with premises within Greater London? And can anyone think of examples of leagues that operated within Greater London in the past that no longer exist or merged or changed names?


I think you've missed the county leagues of Kent, Essex, Herts and Surrey , all of which have clubs within the Greater London boundaries.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Coulsdon is a large enough club that it can run team chess within the club itself, and I think it's got a few league competitions; see http://ccfworld.com/Chess for more details.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:27 pm 
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IM Jack Rudd wrote:
Coulsdon is a large enough club that it can run team chess within the club itself, and I think it's got a few league competitions; see http://ccfworld.com/Chess for more details.


Good point. I'm not sure if it is feasible to list all internal leagues, though, and I am thinking more of team leagues between chess clubs, rather than internal leagues between teams formed within a club. Those are really interesting leagues, though.

http://ccfworld.com/Chess/ChessClubHome ... xplain.htm
http://ccfworld.com/Chess/ChessClubHome ... xplain.htm

That last link is something called the FIDE RATED SUPER LEAGUE.

Goodness, Coulsdon do have a lot of events, don't they?

http://ccfworld.com/Chess/Results%20Archive.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Roger de Coverly wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Are there any other leagues with clubs with premises within Greater London? And can anyone think of examples of leagues that operated within Greater London in the past that no longer exist or merged or changed names?


I think you've missed the county leagues of Kent, Essex, Herts and Surrey, all of which have clubs within the Greater London boundaries.


I feared I had missed some. But are you sure those leagues have clubs within Greater London? Looking again at the ECF webpage, I found the Hertfordshire Chess Association League (no website link) and the North Essex Chess League (the link is a bit funny there), but can't see any clubs listed there that are in Greater London. I couldn't work out which of the ones listed there are for Kent and Surrey. The Surrey Border Chess League seems to be clubs all outside Greater London. Possibly the Kent one you are thinking of is the Thanet Chess League, unless there is another one in Kent?

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=17#loa

Or are there leagues run by the counties (like for Middlesex) that simply aren't listed on that ECF webpage?

[What I'm really after, though, is the names of historical and now-defunct leagues!]


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Random link on the history of chess in London, which I thought was worth putting here for those who didn't know this history already:

http://www.victorianlondon.org/entertai ... sclubs.htm


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:

Or are there leagues run by the counties (like for Middlesex) that simply aren't listed on that ECF webpage?

[What I'm really after, though, is the names of historical and now-defunct leagues!]


I expect the leagues just aren't separately listed when they are run by the county association. Clubs that come to mind as being based in Greater London, but playing outside would include Barnet (Herts), Wanstead (Essex) , Streatham & Brixton (Surrey). As far as I am aware, Kent structure their competitions so that London based clubs play in one-half and rest of Kent in the other. They then meet for a finals day.

Surrey Border and Thanet are, I believe, more or less autonomous from the respective county organisations.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Roger de Coverly wrote:
I expect the leagues just aren't separately listed when they are run by the county association.


Which isn't that helpful, but useful to know. Thanks.

Now, there was someone who did a map of all the chess club venues in his local league (John Upham?). I wonder what sort of map that would show if you did it for more chess leagues, and adjacent ones as well. You could have a map of the whole of England and hover the mouse over it to highlight different leagues. It would probably be a very interesting map if someone could set it up. All you'd need is the map co-ordinates (or post codes) of all the chess clubs. It would definitely give a more visual impression of the geographic spread of chess clubs and leagues across England.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Now, there was someone who did a map of all the chess club venues in his local league (John Upham?).


I am the guilty one : http://www.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=115250766788877321392.000480e8ed41dbce44a16

I can do one for any other League on request...

J.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:49 pm 
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John Upham wrote:
I can do one for any other League on request...

OK, how about the Bristol League?

Bath BA2 4RE
Bath University BA2 7AY
Bristol University BS8 1LN
Cabot BS1 6SJ
Clevedon BS21 7HW
Clifton BS8 1LP
Downend BS16 5UE
Grendel BS1 5AE
Hanham BS15 3EJ
Harambee BS2 8YH
Horfield BS6 6SA
Keynsham BS31 1DQ
Nailsea BS48 2JJ
Patchway BS34 5PF
Pete's Potentials BS8 3JG
South Bristol BS14 0LN
Thornbury BS35 1HB
UWE BS16 1QY
Yate BS37 5HR

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:53 pm 
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John Upham wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Now, there was someone who did a map of all the chess club venues in his local league (John Upham?).


I am the guilty one : http://www.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=115250766788877321392.000480e8ed41dbce44a16

I can do one for any other League on request...


Not for all other leagues on request? :)

Seriously, I'd like to do this for a few leagues, and I did ask back in that other thread how maintainable this sort of map is and whether anyone can do this with access to Google Maps. Will that link always work? Maybe starting with a small league would work best. I wonder what the smallest league in and around London is? You could always start with the London Chess League.

What I really had in mind, though, was a less "busy" map. One that was custom-done to show both all the clubs within a league, but to also draw a line around them on a map, to show the rough geographical extent of the league (the sort of maps I'm thinking of only show the major roads and towns, rather than being maps used to get somewhere - I think 'schematic' is the word I'm looking for). And also something that is more permanent. Clubs change venues, so you really want a snapshot that you can preserve and say "this is what the league looked like for the 2010-11 season", and have snapshots for each successive season.

The London Chess League actually only seems to have 28 clubs, so that shouldn't be too difficult. What is needed is to find the home venue of the clubs, as some play at the central venue (currently the community centre on the Golden Lane Estate at the Barbican), but for purposes of seeing how they are distributed around London, you will need their real home venue (if there is one and if they have only one and not more than one). Shall I do a list of postcodes for you? I'll do that now, as I see Jack has just posted one for the Bristol League.

(1) London Chess League:

*ALBANY (W1T 1JB)
*ATHENAEUM (WC2H 9RA)
BATTERSEA (SW12 8QX)
BECKENHAM & CHARLTON
*CAVENDISH (WC1N 3EW)
DULWICH
DHSS
*DRUNKEN KNIGHTS (WC1A 1LH)
EAST HAM
*GLCC (WC1A 2HR)
HACKNEY
HAMMERSMITH
HO&J
ILFORD
KINGS HEAD
LEWISHAM
*LONDON DEAF (SW1W 0DH)
*METROPOLITAN (E1 7EA)
*MORLEY COLLEGE (SE1 7HT)
MUSHROOMS
RICHMOND
STREATHAM
WANSTEAD
WEST LONDON
WILLESDEN & BRENT
WIMBLEDON
WOODBRIDGE
WOOD GREEN

*GOLDEN LANE (central venue, EC1Y 0RN)

I'll add the post codes in a bit (HO&J will be a problem, as I can't find out anything about it!). The ones with asterisks (*) are actual playing venues. The other postcodes are as best I can make out the "home base" of the clubs that play their London League matches at the central venue of Golden Lane.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Isn't it lucky that the second club I looked up the postcode for happened to have a map showing all the chess clubs in and around London! :?

http://mjh.orpheusweb.co.uk/chingland/lond.htm

That has all the details I've been trying to get from this thread! I don't know whether to laugh or cry. :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:04 pm 
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Christopher

1. HO & J – Home Office & Justice – has its own website at http://www.hojcc.com. This has all the details you need. The club plays its London League Minor Division matches at Golden Lane but its home postcode is SW1H 9HD.

2. I understand from Ian Berry, who used to be the Secretary, that the Central London Legal League has been dormant for about six years. It seems that most lawyers are too busy to play chess.

James


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:32 pm 
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Chris,
The DHSS club premises are in SW1H 9DA. You are right to designate us as playing London League matches at Golden Lane (because our home venue does not have open access - a list of visitors' names must be submitted to building security in advance). However, our team captain is having some success in persuading one or two of our opponents to play at our home venue on the basis that they can submit an advance list of names well in excess of the eight that actually turn up to play.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:42 pm 
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Thanks for both of these updates, but since I found that website that has maps already, I've dropped the plans to do postcode generated maps. The person who runs the chingland website gets details from the chess club websites, I think.


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