Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.
Mike Gunn
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Mike Gunn » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:22 am

Having just finished my postgraduate course in computer science I hitchhiked to Bath and got to discuss computers and chess with Petrosian who correctly forecast the major role that games databases would have in the game. (I thought he was bonkers.)

Gordon Cadden
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Gordon Cadden » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:18 pm

Gordon Cadden wrote:The book was published by Batsford. The main link seems to be with the Athenaeum Club. W.G.Raines is described as the Match Captain for Athenaeum. R.G. Wade was also a member of Athenaeum, and he was the chief Editorial Advisor to Batsford. The book also gives credit to Kevin O'Connell, for editorial assistance. This book has a good obituary for Leonid Stein, who died the very night before the Soviet Team's departure for the Bath European Team Championship.


I have received some comment suggesting that Leonid Stein may have been murdered, immediately prior to his departure for the European Team Championships, at Bath. The obituary does state that Stein suffered from a heart condition. It is very likely that the inoculation he received prior to his departure for Bath, contributed to his death.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Matt Mackenzie » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:32 pm

I thought the generally accepted version was that he had a heart attack after sexual activity with a prostitute??

(unsurprisingly, the details were rather glossed over in the immediate aftermath)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Simon Spivack
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Simon Spivack » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:40 pm

Mike Gunn wrote:Having just finished my postgraduate course in computer science I hitchhiked to Bath and got to discuss computers and chess with Petrosian who correctly forecast the major role that games databases would have in the game. (I thought he was bonkers.)
Mike, just out of idle curiosity, can you recall the language in which this conversation was conducted?

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Stewart Reuben » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:13 am

John Upham >What an incredible coup it would be to bring an Olympiad to these shores.<

We pioneered the Olympiads in England, organising two early on.
Some work was done on such a project for 2000 and also 2012. Neither got anywhere. Actually the best chance for 2000 was Aberdeen rather than England. Had they offered us a free venue, we might have been able to parlay that up into a bid for Millennium Lottery money.

It is very expensive in chess terms. I don't think that article about Tromso was saying they are in difficulties. More that they would like more money to make the event even better.

Considering chess is not very popular in England, we have held a number of major official FIDE events in the last 30 years. e.g.
2.5 World Championship matches
Candidates tournament
FIDE Grand Prix
London Docklands USSR v Rest of the World
Pilkington Glass Candidates matches
Watson, Farley & Williams Candidate matches
Acorn Computer World Championship semifinals

In addition there have been some very fine tournaments with another starting in a few weeks time.

Nick Burrows
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Nick Burrows » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:16 am

yonks


:mrgreen:

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby LawrenceCooper » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:29 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:John Upham >What an incredible coup it would be to bring an Olympiad to these shores.<

We pioneered the Olympiads in England, organising two early on.
Some work was done on such a project for 2000 and also 2012. Neither got anywhere.


Presumably before I became International Director in 2009 :?

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Stewart Reuben » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:02 pm

Lawrence >Presumably before I became International Director in 2009<

Indeed it was, even before you became the Alternate ID in 2008. The amount of work done concerning the 2012 Olympiad was small and done by Mark Hogarth. Naturally it would have been before 2008. Its main effect was to delay my starting work on the World Youth for 2012, also preferably in London, until 2007. By then it was very late even for that less ambitious event.

Simon Spivack
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Simon Spivack » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:36 pm

Simon Spivack wrote:
Mike Gunn wrote:Having just finished my postgraduate course in computer science I hitchhiked to Bath and got to discuss computers and chess with Petrosian who correctly forecast the major role that games databases would have in the game. (I thought he was bonkers.)
Mike, just out of idle curiosity, can you recall the language in which this conversation was conducted?
I have considered this further here. I should like to thank Leonard Barden and Bernard Cafferty for permission to quote from our exchange of emails.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Christopher Kreuzer » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:03 pm

Simon Spivack wrote:
Simon Spivack wrote:
Mike Gunn wrote:Having just finished my postgraduate course in computer science I hitchhiked to Bath and got to discuss computers and chess with Petrosian who correctly forecast the major role that games databases would have in the game. (I thought he was bonkers.)
Mike, just out of idle curiosity, can you recall the language in which this conversation was conducted?
I have considered this further here. I should like to thank Leonard Barden and Bernard Cafferty for permission to quote from our exchange of emails.


That's a fascinating blog post, thanks for posting the link. Hopefully Mike will be able to remember more details and what language was used. On a minor point, with the spelling Petrosian vs Petrosyan, is it best to keyword both spellings or will most search engines find both? I'm asking because I sometimes have to keyword things related to Russian language items, and having to keyword several possible transliterations can get tedious, but I suppose it is necessary. Maybe the onus is on those searching for material on someone to conduct multiple searches under different spellings?

Anyway, to get back to the blog post, you mentioned the handicap of deafness (and you quote Leonard Barden's thoughts on this regarding the speeches at the Centymca simul). I'm not sure what Petrosyan's exact level of deafness was, or when the onset was (if in late childhood, then that makes a big difference as opposed to from birth). But I personally (deaf from birth) have always struggled to converse and listen in other languages, though I can make a reasonable stab at reading French and a few other languages. It is the same with accents. If someone is speaking English with a heavy Russian accent (or even some British accents such as Glaswegian), that can make it very difficult for me to understand what is being said. But it is difficult to say anything definitive, as it very much depends on the individual circumstances.

Simon Spivack
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Simon Spivack » Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:50 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:That's a fascinating blog post, thanks for posting the link. Hopefully Mike will be able to remember more details and what language was used. On a minor point, with the spelling Petrosian vs Petrosyan, is it best to keyword both spellings or will most search engines find both? I'm asking because I sometimes have to keyword things related to Russian language items, and having to keyword several possible transliterations can get tedious, but I suppose it is necessary. Maybe the onus is on those searching for material on someone to conduct multiple searches under different spellings?

Anyway, to get back to the blog post, you mentioned the handicap of deafness (and you quote Leonard Barden's thoughts on this regarding the speeches at the Centymca simul). I'm not sure what Petrosyan's exact level of deafness was, or when the onset was (if in late childhood, then that makes a big difference as opposed to from birth). But I personally (deaf from birth) have always struggled to converse and listen in other languages, though I can make a reasonable stab at reading French and a few other languages. It is the same with accents. If someone is speaking English with a heavy Russian accent (or even some British accents such as Glaswegian), that can make it very difficult for me to understand what is being said. But it is difficult to say anything definitive, as it very much depends on the individual circumstances.

I'm not convinced Robert Huebner would agree that deafness was a handicap in chess! When he played Petrosyan in Seville he complained of the noise. He argued that Iron Tigran could turn down the volume control to his hearing aids. Whilst hardly conclusive, this suggests that Tigran Vartanovich's deafness was severe. The accounts I've read tend to shy away from this matter. For instance, whilst there is an online article at chess pro, unless I've missed something, this isn't discussed.

I've always found the Google search engine superior to alternatives such as DuckDuckGo. Google generally includes the more obvious alternative spellings before giving results. Personally, I wouldn't get worked up over Petrosyan, Petrosian or Petrosjan: try them all, if fussed. Just be internally consistent. A bigger problem is when a name is relatively common; I've never seen a phone book in Yerevan, which I once visited, however, I suspect one would be spoilt for choice should one search for that family name. Consider, for instance, who plays for the current Armenian team. In general, this is why a given name and patronymic is very handy. The harder part is determining what other words to include. One should also search for foreign language accounts, i.e. search for the translated name; in this case Russian and Armenian (the latter being a total nightmare for me).

I wouldn'ae be too harsh on the Glasca keelies, they're a' Jock Tamsin's bairns, too.

Mike Gunn
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Mike Gunn » Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:39 am

Sorry, I didn't notice the question earlier. To the best of my memory I did speak to Petrosian directly (i.e. he spoke English) but there was a group of Russians present (mostly the players but including Mrs P) and it is possible there was an interpreter present as well. The reason that the conversation stuck in my memory of course was Petrosian's early mention of the concept of a chess database.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Keene, Raines and Cromblehome

Postby Paul McKeown » Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:37 pm

Simon Spivack wrote:I've always found the Google search engine superior to alternatives such as DuckDuckGo. Google generally includes the more obvious alternative spellings before giving results.


DuckDuckGo leverages Google's search results (amongst many others). It provides a privacy conscious means to access the Google index database. If you find that the results are poor in comparison to Google, force it to use Google rather than other databases with the appropriate bang, e.g. "!google". In the current vernacular: RTFM.

I would recommend startpage.com. It provides fully anonymised proxy access to Google. The results are the same as querying Google, without the tracking and without the moronic advertising.


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