Postal players

Historical knowledge and information regarding our great game.

Richard James
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Re: Postal players

Post by Richard James » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:11 pm

http://tables.iccf.com/world/wcfinalindex.html gives you the individual CC world championship results if you're interested in Graham Mitchell.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Postal players

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:48 pm

Richard James wrote:http://tables.iccf.com/world/olindex.html - is this any help?
Thanks. However, it suffers (for my purposes) from not saying who the players were...
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Richard James
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Re: Postal players

Post by Richard James » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:55 pm

Yes, it only gives the players from the XII Olympiad onwards. I guess Tim Harding would be the man to ask. The games are probably all in his database but unfortunately I don't have a copy.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Postal players

Post by JustinHorton » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:44 pm

Thanks anyway.
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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Paul McKeown
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Re: Postal players

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:08 pm

I knew the theme of this story was old.

Let me quote CJS Purdy back in 1949:
CJS Purdy, Chess World, Vol. 4 No. 7, July 1, 1949, p. 148, from article titled The Editor Looks Back wrote:War Changes

The one-man show ended with the war, during most of which I spent my days in confidential work concerned with national security, and my nights as an editor—fortunately the magazine was reduced to a slender sixteen pages by paper rationing! Here was another Jekyll and Hyde existence, and a hectic one. But the show had to go on. No one else was available to carry on as editor, and a suspension of a publication is always fatal.

There was one point at which my two lives met. I carried on for some time a correspondence with the Chief of Intelligence—who was very patient—to prove that chess notation was practically impossible to use as a code, and that the ban on correspondence chess for soldiers was a bad thing for morale. Finally the C. of I. admitted himself persuaded on the points made, but said that the field censors should not be worried by symbols they could not understand. So now you know the inside story of that little matter. The ban didn't apply to the Air Force, and for the Navy it didn't matter, correspondence chess being virtually impossible anyway against such will-o'-the-wisp opponents.
I'm sure I read BH Wood writing on a British version of this, somewhere. If I come across it, I will, of course, reproduce it here. Im also sure I read somewhere of first world war versions of this story being acted out too.

Regards,
P.

Gary Kenworthy

Re: Postal players

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:35 pm

Found this thread on "Spycatcher" - I had posted elsewhere (in chess in the Media). On Harold Wilson playing chess with Lord Kagan. Relocated this by accident.
Amazingly the Daily Telegraph peddling Peter Wright's theory of correspondence chess players are spies. Then regurgitated in the Daily Mail. What shoddy journalism. The whole concept has been refuted a few times.

Kevin's story is almost certainly true and under those days thinking, "rightly" rejected for the job.
Sad reality is that (IM) Graham Mitchell later lost his job in MI5, despite any evidence.
Mind you, playing chess is a passport for certain jobs and roles. Not just at Bletchley Park.
In chess circles, a story going around (think it was later repeated in Spycatcher). When an engineer was visiting in Russia, and he checked his rooms for bugs (modus operandi) they are guaranteed. He rolled up the carpet. He found a device he had never seen before, got his screw driver out and started to examine this new device, took the screws off. The chandelier in the ballroom crashed to the floor..

The story that stuck out for me, in Spycatcher was the story of MI6 training their thugs. Being innumerate they got the wrong address (the floor of flats) and subjected a startled guy to torture. Seems MI6 have a reputation of getting the wrong man.
I therefore assume Spycatcher is for reassurance in that Peter Wright's Mi5 finger the right spies...

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John Upham
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Re: Postal players

Post by John Upham » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:39 pm

Gary Kenworthy wrote: In chess circles, a story going around (think it was later repeated in Spycatcher). When an engineer was visiting in Russia, and he checked his rooms for bugs (modus operandi) they are guaranteed. He rolled up the carpet. He found a device he had never seen before, got his screw driver out and started to examine this new device, took the screws off. The chandelier in the ballroom crashed to the floor..

I've unearthed an obscure discussion of this moment by the engineer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtr-_ZAooT8
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Gary Kenworthy

Re: Postal players

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:07 am

Smiley to John.
Different engineer, and does not make it as a cover story for an actual incident in Russia. Nice though.

Gary Kenworthy

Re: Postal players

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:50 am

I also see that the "expert" peddling this, correspondence chess is for espionage during the 1st Cold war is "Gordon Thomas" -- Seems he has also written -- Robert Maxwell - Israeli's superspy. Bob Maxwell who was a British Intelligence Officer, who also sponsored much chess, especially for translating technical and chess books. He gave much employment to chess-players. Obviously, he worked for Israel - his funeral details make that clear and beyond reasonable doubt.

BTW: Bob Maxwell was the officer who interrogated Hermann Giskes (the man Leo Marks (SOE), and author of the Violette Szabo poem, complained about). The Germans had also very good intelligence officers and cryptoanalysts as well. Both WWI and WWII.

I just wonder how accurate that book is on Robert Maxwell? If it has any chess references, and what do they say?.
BTW: Maxwell's original business partner, who was a German scientist, but also a real key undercover British agent during WWII in Germany, whose work is mentioned in Dr R V Jones - Most Secret War . Their is a photo of the Nazi test nuclear reactor being disassembled by British agents, at the end of the War.
Last edited by Gary Kenworthy on Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gary Kenworthy

Re: Postal players

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:02 pm

Daily Telegraph Obituaries – 7/8th OCTOBER 2016—mentions of chess.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2 ... rs--obitu/

“Being frustrated at every turn could only mean that the mole must be either the MI5 deputy director Graham Mitchell or Roger Hollis, head of MI5.”

De Mowbray tried to speak to the Prime Minister Harold Wilson. Although Harold Wilson did receive documents and also those on Cabinet Ministers and MPs. Even their friends, families were bugged and subjected to burglaries, as well. (see Harold playing chess with Lord Kagan). (see Graham Mitchell was one of our first IMs—i.e. more than an ardent fan).

““On one occasion de Mowbray heard that Mitchell, an ardent chess fan, was attending a tournament in Eastbourne in which Russians were taking part. De Mowbray commandeered an MI6 colleague with a fast sports car to whisk him down to the tournament, but without any results.””

Should have checked the scoreboards for any results. Luckily Eastbourne and Hastings are not that far away. Glad they did not say the Russian team this time.
These chess players – obvious spies, playing V I Lenin’s favourite sport. Shame many of the real spies got away with it for years though. Hundreds of spies according to the Verona decrypts. (Enter Hugh Alexander, and his reason for his decoration- on helping breaking real Soviet spy rings, with US colleagues at places like Fort Meade).

Interesting that Operation Nordpol gets a brief mention in De Mowbray's obit. BTW: Harold Wilson seems to have coined the phrase “Bouncing Czech”, for Labour MP Robert Maxwell. (cf Leo Marks).

The BBC obit does not mention chess. (thankfully learning).
However the Soviets, probably outnumbering Western Intelligence 20 or 50 to 1, with better equipment, training and fieldcraft. They were mounting many wide-scale deceptions, false trails, with some real gold dust salted in, as bait.
J J Angleton was also obsessed and frustrated. The Soviets out-played the West, and were always end- gaming the West, resulting in repeated frustrating failures.

Gary Kenworthy

Re: Postal players

Post by Gary Kenworthy » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:55 pm

Just found when Kim Philby - the real spy -- started at Bletchley Park.
June 1940
John Cairncross as said, came later in a more minor role.
Not the postal players who were spies, as per this thread. It was actually the codebreakers in the USA then the UK who unmasked the Cambridge Spy Ring and many other groups.
Enter Hugh Alexander, the real hero. (The film the Imitation Game is a huge cover story, a jig saws of clues the wrong way around).
Rgds (FM) Gary Kenworthy, Bletchley

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