Out of turn draw offer

[David Williams]

Something I feel I ought to know. Rules, not etiquette!

I'm aware that a correctly timed draw offer by player A cannot be withdrawn, and remains valid until it is either rejected or player B makes his next move. But what about an incorrectly timed offer?

Player A offers a draw while it is still his move. Would I be correct in thinking that this also cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until player B makes his next move? Player B is impassive, after a while goes to ask his team captain, disappears to the loo. Player A can (indeed probably must) make a move, and the offer remains on the table.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Barring edge cases (such as A's next move being checkmate), that's correct, yes.

[John Upham]

On the subject of draw offers...

Player A makes a move, offers a draw to Player B and presses the timer.

Player B makes no response and then a flag fall is indicated for B.

Is it correct that B may accept the offered draw?

[IM Jack Rudd]

No. The text of the law in question is as follows (my emphasis):

9.1.2.1    A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before pressing his/her clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 11.5 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way.

A flag-fall is the game concluding in some other way.

[John Upham]

No. The text of the law in question is as follows (my emphasis):

9.1.2.1    A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before pressing his/her clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 11.5 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way.

A flag-fall is the game concluding in some other way.

Thanks. I suspect I am thinking of one of those old chess wives tales that never was true in the first place.

Rather like having to move the piece nearest the King if one touched the King and one could not move it legally.

[Michael Farthing]

No. The text of the law in question is as follows (my emphasis):

9.1.2.1    A player wishing to offer a draw shall do so after having made a move on the chessboard and before pressing his/her clock. An offer at any other time during play is still valid but Article 11.5 must be considered. No conditions can be attached to the offer. In both cases the offer cannot be withdrawn and remains valid until the opponent accepts it, rejects it orally, rejects it by touching a piece with the intention of moving or capturing it, or the game is concluded in some other way.

A flag-fall is the game concluding in some other way.

However, a flag fall is an instance of uncertainty theory: the state of the flag is unknown until observed by one of the players or an arbiter. Thus, if the draw was offered with sporting intent (as in this situation it might well have been), both players can simply close their eyes until formal acceptance has been made. (Hoping that any arbiter is similarly broad minded).