New opening theory and names

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
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Christopher Kreuzer
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New opening theory and names

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:47 am

What potential is there for developing new opening theory and naming an opening? Have all the possibilities been taken, and what areas are most likely to have the potential to be developed and popularised into a new opening?

Am asking because I would like to find some obscure line and popularise it to the extent of being able to rename it even if it has a name at the moment.

Ambitious, I know, but interested to see if this is even possible now. Needs to not be 20 moves down a sideline of some complex opening...

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John Upham
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by John Upham » Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:56 am

Eric Schiller made a habit of this many years ago especially in UCO.

Various chess.com persons appear to be following suit.

One thing I find irritating is to take a line with an established name (based on who actually developed the line) and then rename it based on someone currently active.

We had a recent book named on the basis of one game played by Michael Basman in the 1980s. MJB was truly embarrassed by this.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Jul 11, 2023 10:47 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:47 am

Ambitious, I know, but interested to see if this is even possible now.
The "Harry Attack" 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. h4 is a new name and sufficently theoretical that there's now a book on it. Not a particularly new idea of course, if previously regarded as extreme.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:35 am

I think you can basically do what you like. There was a fifty-year argument in chemistry over element names.
USSR - We have made element 104 and we are calling it kurchatovium.
USA - No you haven't - we have made it and we're calling it rutherfordium
USSR - And we have made 105 and we're calling it dubnium
USA - no you haven't - we've made it and are calling it hahnium.
Eventually the appropriate authorities - Shut it slags, we decide what to call the things, these are the names of the elements, and if you don't want a slap, you'll agree. (OK, they didn't use those exact words...)

Chess opening names have always been informal and somewhat random. Mike Basman was surprised to hear that 1.e4 c5, 2.Nf3 e6, 3.d4 cxd4, 4.Nxd4 Bc5 (commonly called the Basman Sicilian) was first played by Paulsen (I think) in the 1850s. Mike played it more of course. And (as with chemistry), once you let people name things after people, chaos results.

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John Upham
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by John Upham » Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:45 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 11:35 am
Chess opening names have always been informal and somewhat random. Mike Basman was surprised to hear that 1.e4 c5, 2.Nf3 e6, 3.d4 cxd4, 4.Nxd4 Bc5 (commonly called the Basman Sicilian) was first played by Paulsen (I think) in the 1850s. Mike played it more of course. And (as with chemistry), once you let people name things after people, chaos results.
and then it "became" the Basman-Sale variation and the renaming continues ad nauseum.

Perhaps IUPAC should work together with FIDE?
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Kevin Thurlow
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:00 pm

"Perhaps IUPAC should work together with FIDE?"

Interesting idea - I could ask to rejoin the IUPAC committee to try and take over FIDE...Anyone trying to regularise nomenclature of chess openings would have a tricky job though.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Geoff Chandler » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:01 pm

Hi Chris,

I was thinking of a play on words using your name. You could start playing Double Fianchetto openings with either colour so your Bishop criss-cross (Chris - Kreuz) the board. Do this for about 4 years and during that time bring downs a couple of big guns. Then write the book 'Chris Kreuz Chess.'

Hopefully during that time you could pull off a Boden's Mate...


...and you will have a 'Chris Kreuz'' Mate (a Criss-Cross Mate) from the 'Chris Kreuz' opening.

Be quick in getting Boden's Mate (do you already have one, if so post it.) because some people are dropping Boden's name and already calling it a 'Criss-Cross Mate.'

My ambition is to have an opening trap named after me. This one which a genuine trap

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5

Here we often see 4...Nbd7 (The Elephant Trap) which is not really a trap because if White does not fall for it then no harm done.

4...Bd6 Because this Bishop has already moved moving it again will not register.
and if 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Nxd5 Nxd5 7.Bxd8 Bb4+ etc. The flaw is...

Black has lost a central pawn but I think after 7...Qg6 Black has good practical OTB chances.

(you could start playing 4..Bd6 and it will be named The Kreuzer - Chandler Trap. (though it will probably end up being called the Krazy Chandler Trap.)

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John Upham
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by John Upham » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:28 pm

Geoff,

Many years ago my parents advised me to become a comedian.

They are not laughing now.
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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:24 pm

Hard to see what Black has after 7.....Qg6 tbh, just looks like they are a pawn down for very little.

And you might think that after 8 e3, White can gain a bit of time chasing Black's Q too.
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:54 pm

Geoff Chandler wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:01 pm
Hi Chris,

I was thinking of a play on words using your name. You could start playing Double Fianchetto openings with either colour so your Bishop criss-cross (Chris - Kreuz) the board. Do this for about 4 years and during that time bring downs a couple of big guns. Then write the book 'Chris Kreuz Chess.'

Hopefully during that time you could pull off a Boden's Mate...


...and you will have a 'Chris Kreuz'' Mate (a Criss-Cross Mate) from the 'Chris Kreuz' opening.

Be quick in getting Boden's Mate (do you already have one, if so post it.) because some people are dropping Boden's name and already calling it a 'Criss-Cross Mate.'

My ambition is to have an opening trap named after me. This one which a genuine trap

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5

Here we often see 4...Nbd7 (The Elephant Trap) which is not really a trap because if White does not fall for it then no harm done.

4...Bd6 Because this Bishop has already moved moving it again will not register.
and if 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Nxd5 Nxd5 7.Bxd8 Bb4+ etc. The flaw is...

Black has lost a central pawn but I think after 7...Qg6 Black has good practical OTB chances.

(you could start playing 4..Bd6 and it will be named The Kreuzer - Chandler Trap. (though it will probably end up being called the Krazy Chandler Trap.)
Thanks, Geoff. Your post made me smile. I think I have at least two games where Boden's mate was a sideline, though not appearing on the board. One was as a junior from a Sicilian, I think. I have played double fianchetto openings, though not often.

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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Geoff Chandler » Wed Jul 12, 2023 8:32 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 3:24 pm
Hard to see what Black has after 7.....Qg6 tbh...
Hi Matt,

Like Chris the object is to get the thing named after me. A few losses along the way is the price of fame.
So you have to take the optimistic approach and think whilst White is misplacing his pieces hounding my Queen in a one tracked plan, my minor pieces will swoop in and mate him.

Hi Chris,
So you are a Sicilian player. Poke about in the Richter-Rauzer, find a new move and it will known by the catchy title; the Richter-Rauzer-Kreuzer variation.

Back to Matt. Hi Matt,

A cool name. What you need is a mating pattern named after you. 'Matt's Mate' or the 'Mackenzie Mate.'
You should now strive to create matting patterns with two Rooks and a King.

Base it on the Mating Pattern missed by your great-great-grandfather in 1881.

George Henry Mackenzie - Max Judd, St.Louis (Game 12) 1881.


White did not play 41.Qh8+ Qxh8 42.R3g5 mate.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1295213

And 'Thank You.' Whilst digging out that game I discovered that Grandad Mackenzie was born in North Kessock which will be a new quest. I'll get there and back in a day on my bus pass (a round trip off 320 miles) and get a photo of me and my chess set outside the house where he was born.

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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by John Moore » Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:49 am

John Upham wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:28 pm
Geoff,

Many years ago my parents advised me to become a comedian.

They are not laughing now.
John

I see that you have the Bob Monkhouse Book of Jokes.

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John Upham
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by John Upham » Wed Jul 12, 2023 11:30 am

John Moore wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:49 am
John Upham wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:28 pm
Geoff,

Many years ago my parents advised me to become a comedian.

They are not laughing now.
John

I see that you have the Bob Monkhouse Book of Jokes.

I eventually returned them to him after copying them out over a period of months.
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Tim Spanton
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Tim Spanton » Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:30 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:47 am
What potential is there for developing new opening theory and naming an opening? Have all the possibilities been taken, and what areas are most likely to have the potential to be developed and popularised into a new opening?

Am asking because I would like to find some obscure line and popularise it to the extent of being able to rename it even if it has a name at the moment.

Ambitious, I know, but interested to see if this is even possible now. Needs to not be 20 moves down a sideline of some complex opening...
One method might be to come up with a relatively rare sequence, eg 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d5!?, and play it so often that your name is the commonest for that sequence in databases.

Ian Jamieson
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Re: New opening theory and names

Post by Ian Jamieson » Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:48 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:30 pm
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2023 9:47 am
What potential is there for developing new opening theory and naming an opening? Have all the possibilities been taken, and what areas are most likely to have the potential to be developed and popularised into a new opening?

Am asking because I would like to find some obscure line and popularise it to the extent of being able to rename it even if it has a name at the moment.

Ambitious, I know, but interested to see if this is even possible now. Needs to not be 20 moves down a sideline of some complex opening...
One method might be to come up with a relatively rare sequence, eg 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d5!?, and play it so often that your name is the commonest for that sequence in databases.
Yes, but then some GM will play it once in a blitz or a rapid game and the variation will be renamed after them because it’s easier to sell books that way.