I've played Bird's Opening quite a lot over the last few years. The surprise value has certainly helped my results.
Would be interested to hear experiences people have had playing or facing this opening.
If you are looking to take up this opening then I certainly recommend Timothy Taylor's book, although it doesn't quite cover all possibilities for Black.
Bird's Opening
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Peter Ackley
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Re: Bird's Opening
Have played 26 games OTB since June 2012 with Birds. +9 =17 -0.
By subdivision:
+3 =8 -0 Reversed Dutch (ie Black plays ... d5 and ...g6)
+0 =2 -0 Black Sicilian set-up (ie ... c5 with any)
+3 =2 -0 Froms (any)
+2 =4 -0 ... d5 (any) (not with ... g6)
+1 =1 -0 ... d6 (any)
Have also played it at CC - have put old games up in loft/db corrupted so no detailed records.
In general... have enjoyed it although have found some problems:
-The extra tempo when transposing into reversed Dutch has given some problems
-Froms Gambit - have found one line for Black where they can get equality (not covered by Taylor)
-Pircs, Sicilians, Moderns can be annoying.
Moral... will keep it 'up the sleeve' for next season, although won't rely on it! (Bit like the Grob)
By subdivision:
+3 =8 -0 Reversed Dutch (ie Black plays ... d5 and ...g6)
+0 =2 -0 Black Sicilian set-up (ie ... c5 with any)
+3 =2 -0 Froms (any)
+2 =4 -0 ... d5 (any) (not with ... g6)
+1 =1 -0 ... d6 (any)
Have also played it at CC - have put old games up in loft/db corrupted so no detailed records.
In general... have enjoyed it although have found some problems:
-The extra tempo when transposing into reversed Dutch has given some problems
-Froms Gambit - have found one line for Black where they can get equality (not covered by Taylor)
-Pircs, Sicilians, Moderns can be annoying.
Moral... will keep it 'up the sleeve' for next season, although won't rely on it! (Bit like the Grob)
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Jonathan Bryant
- Posts: 3452
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: Bird's Opening
Ah, that explains you getting both f2-f4 and g2-g4 on the board by move six in our game at St Albans.Peter Ackley wrote: (Bit like the Grob)
Out of interest, have either of you faced what's known down our way as the John Bennett Gambit -
1 f4 Nf6, 2 Nf3 d6, 3 b3 Nbd7, 4 Bb2 e5
{edit: the moves of the John Bennett Gambit now make sense}
Last edited by Jonathan Bryant on Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
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Peter Ackley
- Posts: 114
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Re: Bird's Opening
Jon
The early g4 (in the ... Bg4, ... Bxf3 line) was a suggestion of Taylor. It's all about gaining space, something that White can fail to do in the more traditional lines, ending up in a cramped position with the Bishop pair. It's not better than the main line but black players have tended to be less au fait with it.
Peter
The early g4 (in the ... Bg4, ... Bxf3 line) was a suggestion of Taylor. It's all about gaining space, something that White can fail to do in the more traditional lines, ending up in a cramped position with the Bishop pair. It's not better than the main line but black players have tended to be less au fait with it.
Peter
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Paul McKeown
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Re: Bird's Opening
"Bird's Opening" - shouldn't this be in the "Not Chess" forum?
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Jonathan Bryant
- Posts: 3452
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: Bird's Opening
Peter Ackley wrote:Jon
The early g4 (in the ... Bg4, ... Bxf3 line) was a suggestion of Taylor. It's all about gaining space, something that White can fail to do in the more traditional lines, ending up in a cramped position with the Bishop pair. It's not better than the main line but black players have tended to be less au fait with it.
Peter
I certainly wasn't fait. Thought it was a bit optimistic, I have to say, although I was completely unable to prove that.
Incidentally, re: your comment about the extra tempo.
Wasn't it Malaniuk or Gurevich who was once asked why, if they liked the Dutch so much, didn't they play 1 f4, and they responded - 'that extra tempo is going to hurt me'.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
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Matt Mackenzie
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- Location: Millom, Cumbria
Re: Bird's Opening
Oi - its the only opening move I have ever essayed as White in serious play save for (what else?) 1e4. Not since the 1980s, admittedlyPaul McKeown wrote:"Bird's Opening" - shouldn't this be in the "Not Chess" forum?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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Jonathan Bryant
- Posts: 3452
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: Bird's Opening
An example of The John Bennett Gambit, in case of interest.
My young opponent snaffles the pawn without a second thought and is probably lost after his next move. I missed a chance to finish things off even more quickly with a smothered mate threat. Shame really, but still, it made a nice change from the Berlin defence as Black.
My young opponent snaffles the pawn without a second thought and is probably lost after his next move. I missed a chance to finish things off even more quickly with a smothered mate threat. Shame really, but still, it made a nice change from the Berlin defence as Black.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
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Thomas Rendle
- Posts: 469
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Re: Bird's Opening
I used to play the Bird's all the time but now I use it much more sparingly. I won't go into exact detail on the criteria I have for deciding to play it (no point giving the game away) but I don't play it against Sicilian players as it's just too likely to end up in some sort of Closed Sicilian which they're happy to play. It works best when it takes players out of their comfort zone.
One of my favourite games with it was from the 2012 Bunratty open, and it's surprisingly a decent game for the Saturday morning round!! It features a tricky pawn sacrifice from Keith in the opening leading to interesting play. Also 12 consecutive Queen (half) moves.
One of my favourite games with it was from the 2012 Bunratty open, and it's surprisingly a decent game for the Saturday morning round!! It features a tricky pawn sacrifice from Keith in the opening leading to interesting play. Also 12 consecutive Queen (half) moves.
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Jonathan Rogers
- Posts: 4662
- Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:26 pm
Re: Bird's Opening
It has always seemed to me that people tend to be tempted to play the Bird when they have played the Dutch successfully for a while - and when they go through a barren run with their usual White openings, they suddenly think "well look, why dont I just play 1 f4 and get a Dutch virtually all the time?!"
This was my mistake at the British 1991, when I hit a good run and won rounds nine and ten with the Dutch. A win in round eleven, against anyone, anyone at all including my mother, would have earned me an IM norm but I somewhat less helpfully played Chris Ward instead; and hit upon the idea of playing 1 f4. Hmmm. I stood OK, but really I had just played the typical equalising thrusts from trhe Dutch with no extra advantage from the tempo, and then weakened my position in trying to create something from nothing. As they say, Black openings are Black openings - most of them are designed to defend or to counterattack, and we shouldn't be surprised that playing them with an extra tempo doesn't help much, in the same way that we wouldn't play most "White" openings a tempo down with Black.
It seems to me that if one plays 1 f4 against certain targeted individuals only, then one's scope is narrow. One might only want to play it v those who have only ever played 1 e4 as White (else they would have experience v Dutch set ups); and then you would avoid Sicilian players, as Tom says, since they will have experience v Grand Prix and related systems; and there is no real bonus v Pirc/Modern players. Oh, and someone who plays the Dutch as Black themselves may not be too phased by 1 f4 either.
So one would end up targeting someone who only ever plays 1 e4 as White, and does not play Dutch himself as Black, and who does not play Sicilians/Moderns/Pircs v 1 e4. Can't be very many of them around.
This was my mistake at the British 1991, when I hit a good run and won rounds nine and ten with the Dutch. A win in round eleven, against anyone, anyone at all including my mother, would have earned me an IM norm but I somewhat less helpfully played Chris Ward instead; and hit upon the idea of playing 1 f4. Hmmm. I stood OK, but really I had just played the typical equalising thrusts from trhe Dutch with no extra advantage from the tempo, and then weakened my position in trying to create something from nothing. As they say, Black openings are Black openings - most of them are designed to defend or to counterattack, and we shouldn't be surprised that playing them with an extra tempo doesn't help much, in the same way that we wouldn't play most "White" openings a tempo down with Black.
It seems to me that if one plays 1 f4 against certain targeted individuals only, then one's scope is narrow. One might only want to play it v those who have only ever played 1 e4 as White (else they would have experience v Dutch set ups); and then you would avoid Sicilian players, as Tom says, since they will have experience v Grand Prix and related systems; and there is no real bonus v Pirc/Modern players. Oh, and someone who plays the Dutch as Black themselves may not be too phased by 1 f4 either.
So one would end up targeting someone who only ever plays 1 e4 as White, and does not play Dutch himself as Black, and who does not play Sicilians/Moderns/Pircs v 1 e4. Can't be very many of them around.
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Bird's Opening
Hi Jonahtan B.
How on earth did you resist from playing 13...Qe5 here...
....instead of 13...Qg6. The obvious 14.d4 meets 14...Nf3 mate.
I cannot see a hole that, usually my mate in one threats are laughable but that one looks OK.
Possibly saw the idea but got the order mixed up in your mind and dismissed Nf3 as a threat because this...
...does not work.
On the occasions I've faced 1.f4 (?) There are better White moves in that position.
I've always played the From, got what I wanted (a theorectically lost game) and won.....Usually.......Sometimes....
And 1.f4 e5 2.e4 d5 =
EDIT:
"Surely the lad saw this...."
"Geoff don't just look at the game, read what he says....."
"OK"
I see you have added the idea in the pre-notes. I'm a dipstick.
How on earth did you resist from playing 13...Qe5 here...
....instead of 13...Qg6. The obvious 14.d4 meets 14...Nf3 mate.
I cannot see a hole that, usually my mate in one threats are laughable but that one looks OK.
Possibly saw the idea but got the order mixed up in your mind and dismissed Nf3 as a threat because this...
...does not work.
On the occasions I've faced 1.f4 (?) There are better White moves in that position.
I've always played the From, got what I wanted (a theorectically lost game) and won.....Usually.......Sometimes....
And 1.f4 e5 2.e4 d5 =
EDIT:
"Surely the lad saw this...."
"Geoff don't just look at the game, read what he says....."
"OK"
I see you have added the idea in the pre-notes. I'm a dipstick.
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John Moore
- Posts: 2226
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Re: Bird's Opening
Must have been a late night, Geoff!
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Geoff Chandler
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Re: Bird's Opening
Hi John M.
(How many Jonathan's and John's are on this forum?)
I don't have late nights, I have late days. (I've only been up a couple of hours.)
I always skip through a game I see posted, I rarely read what they say pre-game.
It's JB's fault, he should have added a note within the game.
Parents:
Some of you reading this will in the future have Chess playing children.
Please no more John's or Jonathan's.
A few more 'Geoff's' would be OK but no 'Jeffs' that is so Chavy.
Name your offspring after famous players or Chess Openings.
I wanted to call my daughter Capablanca Chandler but Mrs C was having none of it.
In the end we settled for Banana Chandler it does not appear to have done her any harm.
(How many Jonathan's and John's are on this forum?)
I don't have late nights, I have late days. (I've only been up a couple of hours.)
I always skip through a game I see posted, I rarely read what they say pre-game.
It's JB's fault, he should have added a note within the game.
Parents:
Some of you reading this will in the future have Chess playing children.
Please no more John's or Jonathan's.
A few more 'Geoff's' would be OK but no 'Jeffs' that is so Chavy.
Name your offspring after famous players or Chess Openings.
I wanted to call my daughter Capablanca Chandler but Mrs C was having none of it.
In the end we settled for Banana Chandler it does not appear to have done her any harm.
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Jonathan Bryant
- Posts: 3452
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 3:54 pm
Re: Bird's Opening
Geoff Chandler wrote: I always skip through a game I see posted, I rarely read what they say pre-game.
Not to worry Geoff. Yes I only noticed the possibilty of the smothered mate after the tournament. I remember I actually considered ... Qe5 too. I can't remember specifically why I rejected it at the time, but "because I didn't see the mate idea" pretty much covered it.
What I played seemed very good for me - and it is. Perhaps if the game continuation hadn't been winning I'd have looked harder.
IN SUMMARY: Several years playing the Berlin has to have an impact on your chess in one way or another.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
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MJMcCready
- Posts: 3204
- Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:30 pm
Re: Bird's Opening
In defence of 1 f4. Larsen beat 2 world champions with it and even persuaded Fischer to take it up on rare occasions. I thought Larsen's game against Petrosian in 58 ( http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1106394 ) was the best advert fr the move. It's not often you see someone of Petrosian's calibre being so outplayed, and that came from Larsen duping him into the wrong set-up at the end of the opening.Matt Mackenzie wrote:Oi - its the only opening move I have ever essayed as White in serious play save for (what else?) 1e4. Not since the 1980s, admittedlyPaul McKeown wrote:"Bird's Opening" - shouldn't this be in the "Not Chess" forum?