How to break through?

[Christopher Kreuzer]

It's not strictly necessary to sacrifice two pieces. I played a different move after 7...Kf6 (maybe someone will spot it?), managed to win the piece back and was two pawns up after move 8, but as I'd arrived 15 minutes late and had spent time thinking about the sacrifice, I was already in time trouble, so my opponent (rightly) played on and I messed up horrendously in the quickplay finish and sadly lost. But I still enjoyed analysing the position afterwards.

[Roger de Coverly]

if you'd not worked it out over the board, how long would you analyse for at home before switching on the computer?

I would look it up in a database, which contains assessments. My first thought was that it was Hartston-Basman from 1968 in the Slater Young Masters, but that had Black playing c6 and White playing 0-0. The assessment of that at the time had been that Hartston's f7 sacrifice was crushing, but a defence for Black and a subsequent improvement for White had later been discovered.

According to the assessments, the sacrifice works, but there's a not obvious subtle continuation needed to get best value.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

if you'd not worked it out over the board, how long would you analyse for at home before switching on the computer?

I would look it up in a database, which contains assessments. My first thought was that it was Hartston-Basman from 1968 in the Slater Young Masters, but that had Black playing c6 and White playing 0-0. The assessment of that at the time had been that Hartston's f7 sacrifice was crushing, but a defence for Black and a subsequent improvement for White had later been discovered.

I'd presumed my opponent's play had been so offbeat it wouldn't have been played before. Has e5, d6, Nd7, h6 been played before?

According to the assessments, the sacrifice works, but there's a not obvious subtle continuation needed to get best value.

I played 8.Qd4 and instead of 8...c5, my opponent played 8...Qe8 and after 9.Nxd7 double check, I was two pawns up. But are you saying that lots of moves maintain White's advantage with no single crushing move?

EDIT: Correcting move numbers...

[Roger de Coverly]

I played 7.Qd4 and instead of 7...c5, my opponent played 7...Qe8 and after 8.Nxd7 double check, I was two pawns up. But are you saying that lots of moves maintain White's advantage with no single crushing move?

According to the assessments, which are computer driven, Qd4 maintains a small advantage, with 8. .. c5 as the expected reply. The only move claimed to be decisively strong is 8. Nc3, where it appears that Black cannot take on e5. He doesn't get mated, but eventually gives up his Queen for a piece. The ending appears decisively better though.

One of the highest rated example games appears to have been between Kosteniuk and Skripchenko in 2004. There's an example in a British event at Gibraltar in 2007 where 8. .. Qe8 was played.

The Gibraltar game had started 1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nd7 3. Nf3 e5 4. Bc4 h6 5. dxe5 dxe5 6. Nxf7, so Black may not have been that familiar with lines of the Philidor.

[Roger de Coverly]

I'd presumed my opponent's play had been so offbeat it wouldn't have been played before. Has e5, d6, Nd7, h6 been played before?

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 Nd7 4. Bc4 is a standard way to put pressure on the Philidor. The main line is 4. .. c6 or 4. .. exd4 for a alternative treatment. 4. .. Be7 and 4. .. h6 both lead to trouble with Black potentially in an immediate tactical crisis after 5. dxe5 .

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Thanks, Roger! Just quickly, in your 5:24 pm post, I presume you mean 7...c5 (in response to 7.Qd4) and 7.Nc3 instead of the queen move that I played? (Do you also mean 7...Qe8?). You gives these moves as move 8. Oh! Silly me, I'm the one that has been mis-numbering the moves...

I had considered developing moves instead of the more direct 8.Qd4, but you have to look at O-O, Bf4 and various other moves. I could see that 8.Nc3 was good in the sense that it allows a later Nd5+ in some lines, but couldn't see the full lines (please don't post them just yet, I will have to analyse this over a board!). I will have to: (a) work out why Black can't take on e5 after 8.Nc3; and (b) work out what alternatives there are for Black. In your last line in that post (the Gibraltar game), it should be 6.Bxf7, but as I said, thanks for the pointers.

[MJMcCready]

One of Danny King's earlier Power Play videos talks at length about sacrificing and understanding defensive resources. It may have been the very first of them come to think of it. White's position isn't so bad defensively as the bishop covers important squares and the white queen covers the second rank. As mentioned, a slower attack involving more material would have been a better option. Since the center is closed, there's no need to rush into anything.