Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
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Jon Mahony
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Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Jon Mahony » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:08 am

Hi All,

I have been experimenting with the London System recently, however I am by no means well versed yet.

I recently came up against a move not covered by Nigel Davies in his DVD or my rather old book (apologies in advance, I still haven’t learned to put the moves on a computer board):

1.d4, Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bf4 and then 3…Nh5

Now looking at it, it seems a fairly obvious move and must have occurred in a lot of games. Though there isn’t a lot on 365 chess (I think 5 games, all draws or wins for black).

In the game I decided I didn’t want to play Bg3 right away and allow black to snap off the Bishop for nothing, so I chose 4.Be5 more or less forcing the move 4…f3 and only then, having provoked a weakness, did I play 5.Bg3 and seed the Bishop pair in return for a weakened black Kingside and an open Rook file. I later castled long and went for the Kingside, but the game was drawn.

Is this the right way to go about things? Or am I missing some well-known piece of analysis?
"When you see a good move, look for a better one!" - Lasker

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:21 am

I'd probably just play 4.Bg5, and I don't think black's achieved anything by moving his knight slightly offside.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:51 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:I'd probably just play 4.Bg5, and I don't think black's achieved anything by moving his knight slightly offside.
It's a possible transposition to a Torre with a tempo loss. Here's how Hort and Fischer handled a Torre back in 1970 (that enormous Blitz tournament in Yugoslavia)



and as a plausible alternative to reach the some position, but Black to move.




4. Bd2 is another move. An early Nh5 is usually possible in London systems. That's why in some move orders, h3 is played early on to enable the Bishop to drop back to h2. It's possible that White just wants to provoke g5.

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Jon Mahony
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Jon Mahony » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:05 am

Hi Jack and Roger I looked at Bg5, but aren’t I just allowing black lots of tempo pushing the Kingside pawns forward to kick the Bishop? h6 and g5 then the Knight will take the Bishop anyway, solving the offside Knight and relieving me of my two Bishops.

Did I want to provoke the move g5? I wasn’t sure :lol: maybe if black had castled. Think the grading differences are showing here, in terms of positional judgment
"When you see a good move, look for a better one!" - Lasker

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:09 am

Swapping the bishop off anyway? I'm not letting him do that. If he plays 4...h6, I'm going 5.Bd2.

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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:29 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:If he plays 4...h6, I'm going 5.Bd2.
Transpositions everywhere. I found a game from a German Girls' under 14 which went



which transposed to a Ray Keene game from 1979 which had gone



In the Keene game, the idea of 7. .. h6 had been to follow up with 8. .. Be6 in order to provoke 9. cxd5. In the German game, Black went for a conventional liquidation with 10. .. dxc4

Francis Fields
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Francis Fields » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:23 am

I think that Nh5 changes the nature of the position and would thus consider Be3 to avoid being kicked around.

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Jon Mahony
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Jon Mahony » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:20 pm

I’ve since had the same thing crop up in a CC game since - I went for Jack’s Bg5 idea but didn’t like the look of those games where Bd2 and e3 is played, so I opted for going e4, my opponent played c5 and exchanged on d4, so I’m currenty trying to manoeuvre things into a Sicilian Dragon Yugoslav attack type thing, where my opponent has wasted time with his Knight and me with the Bishop. I can see nothing more useful for his Knight now except to head back to f6, and I’ve got ample time to get f3 in and start the kingside attack :)
"When you see a good move, look for a better one!" - Lasker

Brian Towers
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Brian Towers » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:31 pm

I would aim for a Barry Attack against the KID.

It worked for Hebden against Nunn ... twice!
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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Jon Mahony
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Re: Unusual move in the London System Vs the KID

Post by Jon Mahony » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:46 pm

Brian Towers wrote:I would aim for a Barry Attack against the KID.

It worked for Hebden against Nunn ... twice!
It hasn’t worked for me very much though, I think I’ve managed 1 draw in the 7 or so games I’ve played it :lol:

I’ve recently being looking at the Veresov attack Vs 1…Nf6 though. If black insists on a KID with 2…g6 a quick e4 will “trick” him into a 150 attack vs the Pirc which I am much more comfortable playing.
"When you see a good move, look for a better one!" - Lasker