Where did I go wrong?

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
Roger de Coverly
Posts: 15538
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby Roger de Coverly » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:39 am

At move 12, Nxd4 is unusual, most players maintain the centre pawns with 12. cxd4 . The reply 12. .. Nc4 isn't recorded as being played before. Given the less usual position, Black is provoked into blundering a piece with 17. .. d5.

John McKenna
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby John McKenna » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:24 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What was my mistake in:
[Event "Fars-Ch 2016"]
[Site "Shiraz"]
[Date "20.07.2016"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Bahari, Amir reza"]
[Black "Hooshdaran, Soheil"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E60"]
[WhiteElo "0"]
[BlackElo "1795"]
[Opening "King's Indian defence"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. f3 c5 4. d5 b5 5. b3 bxc4 6. bxc4 Bg7 7. Bb2 O-O 8. e4 Qb6
9. Qb3 d6 10. Bd3 Nbd7 11. Ne2 Rb8 12. Bc2 Qa6 13. Qa3 Rxb2 14. Qxb2 Nxe4 15.
Qb3 Qa5+ 16. Kf1 f5 17. Qd3 Bxa1 18. Ng3 Ne5 19. Qe2 Ba6 20. Bb3 Rb8 21. Nxe4
Bxc4 22. Bxc4 Rxb1+ 23. Kf2 Rxh1 24. Bb3 fxe4 25. fxe4 Ng4+ 26. Kg3 h5 27. h3
Be5+ 28. Kh4 Bf6+ 29. Kg3 Qc3+ 30. Kf4 Qc1+ 31. Kf3 Rf1+ 32. Kg3 Qf4# 0-1


I think it is questionable whether either player wants their queen on the b-file this early in the game, above.

8... Qb6?! (8... Pd6 & 9... O-O is normal) could have been answered with 9.Qc2!? (9.Qb3?! See game, above.) d6 10.Nd2, with 11.Rb1 to follow and would have been much safer for W than what was played in the game.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby John McKenna » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:39 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:Please tell me my mistakes in:
[Event "Fars ch 2016"]
[Site "Shiraz"]
[Date "21.7.2016"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Hooshdaran, Soheil"]
[Black "Farhood, Arash"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C92"]
[WhiteElo "1795"]
[BlackElo "1446"]
[Opening "Ruy Lopez: closed, Flohr-Zaitsev system (Lenzerheide variation)"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 O-O 8. h3
d6 9. c3 Bb7 10. d4 Na5 11. Bc2 exd4 12. Nxd4 Nc4 13. b3 Ne5 14. Nf5 Re8 15.
Nxe7+ Rxe7 16. Bg5 Re8 17. Nd2 d5 18. f4 c5 19. fxe5 Rxe5 20. Bf4 Re8 21. e5 Nd7
22. Qh5 g6 23. Qh6 d4 24. Bg5 f6 25. Bxg6 Re7 26. exf6 Nxf6 27. Bxf6 Rxe1+ 28.
Rxe1 Qxf6 29. Bxh7+ Kf7 30. Rf1 1-0


Roger de Coverly wrote:At move 12, Nxd4 is unusual, most players maintain the centre pawns with 12. cxd4 . The reply 12. .. Nc4 isn't recorded as being played before. Given the less usual position, Black is provoked into blundering a piece with 17. .. d5.


Efim Bogoljubow replied to Endre Steiner's 12.Nxd4!? (Fischer suggested 12.cxd4 c5 13.Nbd2 with slight advantage to W.) with 12... g6, and after 13.Nd2 Re8 14.Nf1 Bf8 15.Ng3 Bg7 16.Bf4 Nc4... won in 29 moves at Budapest, 1921.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 15538
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby Roger de Coverly » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:54 am

John McKenna wrote:Efim Bogoljubow replied to Endre Steiner's 12.Nxd4!? (Fischer suggested 12.cxd4 c5 13.Nbd2 with slight advantage to W.) with 12... g6, and after 13.Nd2 Re8 14.Nf1 Bf8 15.Ng3 Bg7 16.Bf4 Nc4... won in 29 moves at Budapest, 1921.


Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical. Most players would accept the Fischer verdict and play cxd4 .

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby soheil_hooshdaran » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:51 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical.

That's why I took with the Knight

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby soheil_hooshdaran » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:24 pm

My advantage soon disappeared; why?
[Event "Fars Championship (men) 2016"]
[Site "Shiraz"]
[Date "21.07.2016"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Zare, Mohammad"]
[Black "Hooshdaran, Soheil"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2087"]
[BlackElo "1795"]

1. e4 c5 2. Be2 Nc6 3. d3 Nf6 4. g4 d5 5. g5 Ng8 6. Nd2 e6 7. f4 h6 8. Ngf3 hxg5
9. fxg5 Bd6 10. Nf1 Nge7 11. c3 dxe4 12. dxe4 Ng6 13. Rg1 Qc7 14. Be3 Nh4 15.
Bf2 Nxf3+ 16. Bxf3 Ne5 17. Be2 Bd7 18. Qc2 O-O-O 19. O-O-O Bc6 20. h4 Ng6 21. h5
Nf4 22. Rh1 Nxe2+ 23. Qxe2 Bf4+ 24. Nd2 Ba4 25. b3 Qe5 26. Kb2 Bxd2 27. Rxd2 Bb5
28. Rxd8+ Rxd8 29. Qxb5 Rd2+ 30. Ka3 Rxf2 31. Rd1 a6 32. Qe8+ Kc7 33. Rd7+ Kb6
34. Qd8+ Ka7 35. Qe7 1-0

Barry Sandercock
Posts: 1175
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:52 am

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby Barry Sandercock » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:45 pm

Your30..Rf2 is a mistake as it gives White control of the d file with his rook. A better move would have been 30..Qxc3 with threat of mate. and then 31.. Qc2 if White played Rb1. However, White would probably have got a perpetual check with his Queen. All this is easy to see with hindsight, but not at all easy when actually playing.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 1683
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Fleet, Hampshire

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:56 pm

Barry Sandercock wrote:Your30..Rf2 is a mistake as it gives White control of the d file with his rook. A better move would have been 30..Qxc3 with threat of mate. and then 31.. Qc2 if White played Rb1. However, White would probably have got a perpetual check with his Queen. All this is easy to see with hindsight, but not at all easy when actually playing.

If I was playing White in this game and you went 30....Qxc3, I'd go 31.Qxc5+ and wait for you to resign. :)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:06 pm

actually, I was asking about the reason I was losing my big advantage, not the reason for my losing the game. I could easily win a pawn, but it necessitated exchanging on d2, going for Bishops of opposite color, which would make the material advantage almost irrelevant

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 2201
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby MartinCarpenter » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:22 pm

When do you think it was big? The overall game doesn't look at all clear.

White's opening looks a bit absurd, but its the sort of thing that often works better than you'd think.

Barry Sandercock
Posts: 1175
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:52 am

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby Barry Sandercock » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:36 pm

I don't think Black had an advantage. Certainly not near the end, if at any stage.

Roger de Coverly
Posts: 15538
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby Roger de Coverly » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:45 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:If I was playing White in this game and you went 30....Qxc3, I'd go 31.Qxc5+ and wait for you to resign. :)


Isn't the King on b2, so taking on c3 is check, but Kxc3 is a good reply?

It's one of those positions that radically changes in the transition to an ending. When the Bishops came off, White was suddenly much better.

If you can win a pawn, but only by going into an opposite Bishops ending, perhaps the Black advantage was not so great.

I suspect the tactics work better the other way round, so that instead of taking on d2, first play Bb5. That way, you regain the piece by taking on d2 with follow up threats to the c3 pawn.

Ian Thompson
Posts: 1683
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Fleet, Hampshire

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:27 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote:If I was playing White in this game and you went 30....Qxc3, I'd go 31.Qxc5+ and wait for you to resign. :)


Isn't the King on b2, so taking on c3 is check, but Kxc3 is a good reply?

No. White's last move was 30.Ka3 (after 29....Rd2+) and Barry's suggestion was then 30....Qxc3.

I think it's lost for Black after 27....Bb5. White can take the bishop. Black can't then take White's bishop on f2 and defend against the threats to his own king.

John McKenna
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 2:02 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby John McKenna » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:59 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical.

That's why I took with the Knight


Your reply reveals a lack of appreciation - it is better not to take with the Kt.

After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3
O-O 8.h3 d6 9.c3 Bb7 10.d4 Na5 11.Bc2 exd4, it is better to play Fischer's 12.cxd4,
not 12.Nxd4 because Bogojubow's 12... g6... is a logical and effective way of answering it.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 1676
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: Where did I go wrong?

Postby soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:57 pm

John McKenna wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
Bogo's .. g6 reply seems very logical.

That's why I took with the Knight


Your reply reveals a lack of appreciation - it is better not to take with the Kt.

After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3
O-O 8.h3 d6 9.c3 Bb7 10.d4 Na5 11.Bc2 exd4, it is better to play Fischer's 12.cxd4,
not 12.Nxd4 because Bogojubow's 12... g6... is a logical and effective way of answering it.

Doesn't the move slightly weaken the K-side?


Return to “Chess Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest