Queen and knight v Queen

Technical questions regarding Openings, Middlegames, Endings etc.
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Gavin Strachan
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Queen and knight v Queen

Postby Gavin Strachan » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:18 am

Discounting situations of forced wins or draws is queen and knight v queen endgame a draw or is it winnable?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby Roger de Coverly » Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:32 am

Gavin Strachan wrote:Discounting situations of forced wins or draws is queen and knight v queen endgame a draw or is it winnable?


Assuming no pawns, I think it a draw.

You can try out various 5 and 6 man positions using the Shredder site.

http://www.shredderchess.com/online-che ... abase.html

Ian Kingston
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby Ian Kingston » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:04 am

According to John Nunn, 'the overwhelming majority of positions are drawn' in this ending (Secrets of Pawnless Endings, 1994, p. 68). He devotes 53 pages to the topic.

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Gavin Strachan
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby Gavin Strachan » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:29 am

Lucky I won on time just before it occurred

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby MartinCarpenter » Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:32 am

Ah well, that's (not :)) 'won according to a table base', which perhaps isn't very relevant in practical chess.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby Matt Mackenzie » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:47 am

Q+minor piece v Q - without pawns - is normally drawn. As ever, there are exceptions :)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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John Clarke
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby John Clarke » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:59 am

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Q+minor piece v Q - without pawns - is normally drawn. As ever, there are exceptions :)

There'd certainly be a lot less to intrigue and entertain us without "exceptions" such as the following (courtesy of Henri Rinck):
[FEN "1k2q3/8/4N3/8/2Q5/3K4/8/8 w - - -"] [SetUp "1"] *
"The chess-board is the world ..... the player on the other side is hidden from us ..... he never overlooks a mistake, or makes the smallest allowance for ignorance."
(He doesn't let you resign and start again, either.)

Tim Harding
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby Tim Harding » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:12 pm

An instructive case, from the first round of the 2014 Irish Championship.
White offered a draw in the totally won final position!

[Site "Trinity College Dublin"]
[Date "2014.07.05"]
[Round "1.5"]
[White "Palmer, Bernard M"]
[Black "Jessel, Stephen"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C01"]
[WhiteElo "2026"]
[BlackElo "2308"]
[PlyCount "127"]
[EventDate "2014.07.05"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]

1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Bd3 Bd6 5. Nc3 c6 6. Nf3 Nf6 7. Bg5 O-O 8.
O-O Bg4 9. h3 Bh5 10. g4 Bg6 11. Ne5 Qb6 12. Bxg6 fxg6 13. Qd3 Nbd7 14. Nxd7
Nxd7 15. Rae1 Rf7 16. Re6 Qc7 17. Kg2 Nf8 18. Re2 Bf4 19. Bh4 g5 20. Bg3 Ng6
21. Rfe1 Raf8 22. Re8 Bd6 23. Rxf8+ Rxf8 24. Nd1 Nh4+ 25. Bxh4 gxh4 26. Re6 Qd7
27. Re2 Bb8 28. Qe3 Qc7 29. Qe6+ Kh8 30. Re5 g6 31. Qe7 Rf7 32. Qxh4 Qd7 33.
Re2 Kg8 34. f3 Bc7 35. Qe1 Kg7 36. Nf2 Qd6 37. Re5 Qf6 38. Qe2 Bxe5 39. dxe5
Qe6 40. Nd3 b6 41. f4 d4 42. Qe4 c5 43. b3 Rc7 44. f5 gxf5 45. gxf5 Qc6 46. Kf3
c4 47. Nb4 Qxe4+ 48. Kxe4 cxb3 49. cxb3 a5 50. Nd5 Rc2 51. Nxb6 Rxa2 52. Nc4 a4
53. bxa4 Rxa4 54. Kxd4 $18 Ra1 55. Kd5 Rh1 56. Ke6 Rxh3 57. f6+ Kg6 58. f7 Rf3
59. Nd6 h5 60. Ke7 h4 61. f8=Q Rxf8 62. Kxf8 h3 63. e6 h2 64. e7
1/2-1/2[/pgn]
Tim Harding
Historian and Kibitzer

Author of 'Joseph Henry Blackburne: A Chess Biography' and 'Eminent Victorian Chess Players'
http://www.chessmail.com

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Michael Farthing
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Re: Queen and knight v Queen

Postby Michael Farthing » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:13 am

[Site "Trinity College Dublin"]
[Date "2014.07.05"]
[Round "1.5"]
[White "Palmer, Bernard M"]
[Black "Jessel, Stephen"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "C01"]
[WhiteElo "2026"]
[BlackElo "2308"]
[PlyCount "127"]
[EventDate "2014.07.05"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]

1. d4 e6 2. e4 d5 3. exd5 exd5 4. Bd3 Bd6 5. Nc3 c6 6. Nf3 Nf6 7. Bg5 O-O 8.
O-O Bg4 9. h3 Bh5 10. g4 Bg6 11. Ne5 Qb6 12. Bxg6 fxg6 13. Qd3 Nbd7 14. Nxd7
Nxd7 15. Rae1 Rf7 16. Re6 Qc7 17. Kg2 Nf8 18. Re2 Bf4 19. Bh4 g5 20. Bg3 Ng6
21. Rfe1 Raf8 22. Re8 Bd6 23. Rxf8+ Rxf8 24. Nd1 Nh4+ 25. Bxh4 gxh4 26. Re6 Qd7
27. Re2 Bb8 28. Qe3 Qc7 29. Qe6+ Kh8 30. Re5 g6 31. Qe7 Rf7 32. Qxh4 Qd7 33.
Re2 Kg8 34. f3 Bc7 35. Qe1 Kg7 36. Nf2 Qd6 37. Re5 Qf6 38. Qe2 Bxe5 39. dxe5
Qe6 40. Nd3 b6 41. f4 d4 42. Qe4 c5 43. b3 Rc7 44. f5 gxf5 45. gxf5 Qc6 46. Kf3
c4 47. Nb4 Qxe4+ 48. Kxe4 cxb3 49. cxb3 a5 50. Nd5 Rc2 51. Nxb6 Rxa2 52. Nc4 a4
53. bxa4 Rxa4 54. Kxd4 $18 Ra1 55. Kd5 Rh1 56. Ke6 Rxh3 57. f6+ Kg6 58. f7 Rf3
59. Nd6 h5 60. Ke7 h4 61. f8=Q Rxf8 62. Kxf8 h3 63. e6 h2 64. e7
1/2-1/2

Missing opening BBCode tage corrected. Moderators please feel free to delete this post when appropriate!


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