Formats to be used in title tournaments

[LawrenceCooper]

https://qc.fide.com/2024/01/06/formats- ... urnaments/

From the 1st March 2024, Schiller Format Events and Scheveningen Format Events* will no longer be valid for the awarding of FIDE Title Norms (FIDE Handbook B.01.1.4.2e).

The FIDE Qualification Commission has taken this decision as it regards FIDE Titles as being earned as a result of competitive play, where all players in an event are playing under the same conditions and are aiming to achieve the best possible outcomes. Schiller and Scheveningen format events do not meet this criteria for all players involved in such tournaments.

Valid formats to be used in title tournaments are:

Swiss System
Round Robin
Double Round Robin
Knockout
From the 1st March 2024 games by unrated players in Schiller Format Events and Scheveningen Format Events* will no longer be valid for inclusion of the FIDE Rating List. Games between rated players will still be included.

*Federations can apply for approval for Scheveningen and Schiller Format Events if they are National or International events which are organised directly by a Federation or organised directly between FIDE Federations (ie International matches, or National Teams Championships).

[Roger de Coverly]

From the 1st March 2024, Schiller Format Events and Scheveningen Format Events* will no longer be valid for the awarding of FIDE Title Norms (FIDE Handbook B.01.1.4.2e).

Didn't they first make them invalid some years ago? They were then later reinstated. Was it Kirsan who brought them back?

[Richard Bates]

Silly logic. What is a GM playing for in a round robin with no prize money that distinguishes it from a Scheveningen?

[Jon D'Souza-Eva]

The Scheveningen format is, I believe, where the participants in a tournament are split into two teams and each player plays every player on the other team. I've never heard of the Schiller format before, but an internet search suggests that it is similar to the Scheveningen format but with more than two teams - is that correct?

[Ian Thompson]

The Scheveningen format is, I believe, where the participants in a tournament are split into two teams and each player plays every player on the other team. I've never heard of the Schiller format before, but an internet search suggests that it is similar to the Scheveningen format but with more than two teams - is that correct?

Yes. For example, with 12 players, you could split them into four groups of three. Each player plays the nine players not in their group.

[Mick Norris]

Schiller norm tournaments were played alongside the Northumbria Masters; you can see the details at the bottom of the page

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Silly logic. What is a GM playing for in a round robin with no prize money that distinguishes it from a Scheveningen?

No idea. But (and I have asked this before) are statistics available?

What proportion of title norms are (were!) made in Scheveningen and Schiller-type tournaments? What proportion did they make up of norm-eligible tournaments? To give an idea of the scale of the data involved, can anyone extract or estimate the number of FIDE-rated tournaments that are played in a typical recent calendar year, and the number where norms are made?

[Kevin Thurlow]

"Valid formats to be used in title tournaments are:

Swiss System
Round Robin
Double Round Robin
Knockout"

Does that mean they are excluding team tournaments? Excluding the two "Sch"s suggests they don't like team events... Or is it the usual clumsy FIDE wording?

[NickFaulks]

Was it Kirsan who brought them back?

No, it was me. I had never seen a problem with them and I don't now.

I cannot imagine Kirsan holding a view on such an issue.

[NickFaulks]

"Valid formats to be used in title tournaments are:

Swiss System
Round Robin
Double Round Robin
Knockout"

Does that mean they are excluding team tournaments? Excluding the two "Sch"s suggests they don't like team events... Or is it the usual clumsy FIDE wording?

Typically careless work from the PR department.

If you read the actual regulations ( something I always recommend ), it is stated that

"The following formats may be used in title tournaments, whether for individuals or teams.
Swiss
Round Robin
Double Round Robin
Knockout
Other formats require the prior approval of the QC Chairperson."

[Kevin Thurlow]

Thanks - I was too lazy to look for the full regulations! I also wondered what the objection was to the Sch-events.

[NickFaulks]

I also wondered what the objection was to the Sch-events.

There seems to be a perception that they are more open to manipulation, but no evidence has been produced in support of that.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Is the "manipulation" required to set up the correct rating levels the same as for Round Robin tournaments set up for the same purposes? Or is it maybe more that that are rarely used? It might simply be a perception that they are rare events and so "not needed"? Are there any statistics on how many tournaments of this nature take place for the purposes of title norms? I would have thought more aspersions could be cast on Knockout events.

[Ian Thompson]

https://qc.fide.com/2024/01/06/formats- ... urnaments/

From the 1st March 2024, Schiller Format Events and Scheveningen Format Events* will no longer be valid for the awarding of FIDE Title Norms (FIDE Handbook B.01.1.4.2e).

... where all players in an event are playing under the same conditions and are aiming to achieve the best possible outcomes.

Any tournaments with category prizes (e.g. rating, junior, female) fails to meet the "under the same conditions" criterion.

"The best possible outcome" is going to vary from player to player in a title norm tournament as well - the untitled player seeks a norm, the already titled player's objective may be that his performance encourages the organiser to invite him back to a future event.