Candidates Matches 3rd - 27th May 2011

[Jonathan Rogers]

It's nice to see now a more well known figure has made the point about Adams not having nearly as much motivation as Gelfand, for example, that he doesn't get shouted down .

Fact is in chess, (or in similar sports like poker, more or less any 'mind actvitiy'), you CAN still play at the top level at a later age, you just have to keep working with as much energy, focus and 'joy' as those who are younger. Even if you can't quite match their energy levels, (older players probably can't, at least in terms of physical ability, but this doesn't play a massive part in chess), your experience and 'know how' can give you an advantage. Gelfand has said he "trains every day, there is no other way". And it seems he puts a lot of effort in at the board. I would guess his Jewish upbringing, coupled with his personal ethos, insists that he MUST work hard to be good at something, and that he does.

... and this is largely the key to Korchnoi's longevity. I remember hearing a story of a 70 years odd VK blundering a game away (or at any rate, missing some important tactical point) some ten years ago: everyone waited for the outburst but when it came it was "oh no - now I have to include an extra hour on tactics to my daily workload!"

[LozCooper]

Need I (or Mark) say anymore about Gelfand obviously "wanting it" more than Adams?

NO, but you probably will

[Jonathan Rogers]

Need I (or Mark) say anymore about Gelfand obviously "wanting it" more than Adams?

NO, but you probably will

No, for now I will leave it those who think the opposite to provide some evidence.

[LozCooper]

Need I (or Mark) say anymore about Gelfand obviously "wanting it" more than Adams?

NO, but you probably will

No, for now I will leave it those who think the opposite to provide some evidence.

I just get the impression you are being negative about our number one player for no apparant reason. I prefer to be positive about our players and wish them well. I'll be more than happy for Adams or McShane to do well in the World Cup or any other event and I certainly won't be questioning Luke's desire if he is doesn't play in the World Cup. Of course, I don't expect everyone to be supportive of our players and that is why a number of our top players stay well clear of the forum.

[LozCooper]

Adams has performed strongly in a number of World Chess Championship tournaments.

In 1993 he finished equal first (with Viswanathan Anand) in the Groningen Interzonal tournament to determine challengers for the PCA World Chess Championship 1995. This took him to the Candidates Tournament matches, where he beat Sergei Tiviakov in the quarter finals, but lost to Anand in the semi-finals.

He also qualified for the Candidates Tournament for the FIDE World Chess Championship 1996, losing to Boris Gelfand in the first round of matches.

In 1997, he took part in the 1997-1998 FIDE World Championship, which, for the first time, was a large knock-out event, the winner of which would play a match against reigning champion, Anatoly Karpov. This tournament included most of the world's top players (Garry Kasparov, Vladimir Kramnik and Gata Kamsky were the only notable absentees), and Adams won short matches against Tamaz Giorgadze, Sergei Tiviakov, Peter Svidler, Loek van Wely, and Nigel Short, before coming up against Anand in the final round. Their four games at normal time controls were all drawn, as were four rapidplay games at quicker time limits, before Anand won the sudden-death game, thereby eliminating Adams from the competition.

The 1999 FIDE World Championship resulted in another semi-final finish for Adams, before losing to Vladimir Akopian.[3] Yet again, he reached the semi-finals of the 2000 FIDE World Championship before losing to eventual winner Anand.[4] In the 2002 FIDE World Championship he won his first three rounds before being knocked out in the 'round of 16' by Peter Svidler.[5]

Adams came closest to claiming a world title at the 2004 FIDE Championship, when he reached the final, winning matches against Hussein Asabri, Karen Asrian, Hichem Hamdouchi, Hikaru Nakamura, Vladimir Akopian and Teimour Radjabov. However, he lost to Rustam Kasimdzhanov in the final (3½-4½ after rapidplay tie-breaks, the match having been tied 3-3 after the six standard games).

As runner-up in the 2004 event, Adams was one of eight players invited to the FIDE World Chess Championship 2005. He finished in equal sixth-seventh place, with a score of 5½ out of 14.

In May–June 2007, Adams participated in the Candidates Tournament to qualify for the FIDE World Chess Championship 2007. In the first round he drew 3-3 with Alexey Shirov, and was beaten 2½-0½ in the rapidplay playoff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ad ... ss_player)

[Jonathan Rogers]

Worry not, you have the wrong impression. I will support Adams (and Luke, if he plays) in any World Cup match that he might play - why would you think otherwise?

I have been saying that he lacks Gelfand's motivation. That is another matter. It cannot seriously be doubted. Gelfand travels pretty much literally to the ends of the world to take any possibility of competing for the World Ch: Adams does not. I know full well of his fine record in knockout events, but happen to think that his decision not even to play the World Cup in 2009 is more to the point when discussing motivation!

If you prefer, think of my comment as implying a positive - that Adams is at least as talented as Gelfand ... Another reason why it is not negative to point out the difference in motivation is that it may be healthy not to be too obsessed with chess. Adams may well be right to think he has an impressive enough CV already.

[Ben Purton]

I think Adams is more gifted than Gelfand in terms of natural understanding but Gelfand has worked harder I think. In last 5 years we've slowly seen his results chip to the high 2700's. I think the thing that makes him quite a strong player in matchplay is he is an extremely good Black player it seems. His results with Black are so impressive. This makes it dangerous for any world class opponent.

My understanding is the Israeli team are very united. In fact any sort of friction would be cause purely through pure compeition. I seem to remember at last olympiad they had selection issues because of the sheer amount of players they have around the 2580-2650 area. Quite a few of these have migrated to other countries now(Spain for 2 of them). I do think Israel have a pattern we should follow.

They have quite a few young talents also

[LozCooper]

Worry not, you have the wrong impression. I will support Adams (and Luke, if he plays) in any World Cup match that he might play - why would you think otherwise?

I have been saying that he lacks Gelfand's motivation. That is another matter. It cannot seriously be doubted. Gelfand travels pretty much literally to the ends of the world to take any possibility of competing for the World Ch: Adams does not. I know full well of his fine record in knockout events, but happen to think that his decision not even to play the World Cup in 2009 is more to the point when discussing motivation!

If you prefer, think of my comment as implying a positive - that Adams is at least as talented as Gelfand ... Another reason why it is not negative to point out the difference in motivation is that it may be healthy not to be too obsessed with chess. Adams may well be right to think he has an impressive enough CV already.

Why can't it be doubted? What knowledge do you have of how Mickey views on chess and his aims for the future? You seem to be basing your opinion on him not playing in one event and jumping to a convenient conclusion to try and justify your personal attack on him.

[Jonathan Rogers]

yes Loz, I am rather "jumping" to the conclusion that when a player in his late thirties declines an opportunity to play for the world championship, he probably does not have the hunger anymore to win it! He might play in the World Cup to make money, if it's well organised and in a nice venue - but then those would be the reasons for playing, and not any burning desire to become world champion.

I can believe that he was still motivated in Tripoli - and that was why he almost did it. But that was seven years ago, when he was in his early thirties and still one of the world's top ten; and the motivation levels would have been correspondingly higher.

Does anyone else think I am making a personal attack on Adams, incidentally?

[David Sedgwick]

Does anyone else think I am making a personal attack on Adams, incidentally?

Since you ask, yes.

[Jonathan Rogers]

you think it's a personal attack to say that someone is not highly motivated to become world champion? Well fair enough if so, I did indeed ask ...

[Mike Truran]

Since you ask, no.

[LozCooper]

If I was a top player I would certainly find having my motivation questioned to be insulting albeit you may not have meant it as such. Just because he doesn't punch the air and shout "c'mon" it doesn't mean that he is not motivated. I think if he were to stop competing in several of these events over a number of years it would be reasonable to conclude that he was no longer motivated but to make judgements on his personal feelings without having spoken to him (feel free to correct me if he poured his heart out to you on the subject) suggests you have little foundation for your "clear and obvious" conclusions.

[Mike Truran]

Jonathan may or may not have a foundation, but that in itself doesn't make it a personal attack.

[Jonathan Rogers]

(To Loz) So long as you accept that I meant no personal attack, let's leave it there. I do think that missing one World Cup event is significant, as it happens, because he is in his late thirties already - obviously I am not drawing the same conclusions from Magnus Carlsen's refusal to play! But if you think it undesirable to pursue this on an open forum, then fine, you might be right about that.