J Hawkins

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William Metcalfe
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J Hawkins

Post by William Metcalfe » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:10 pm

As a rapidly improving player would Johnnys name come up when concidering team selections for olympiad or european team champs.
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

LozCooper

Re: J Hawkins

Post by LozCooper » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:12 pm

William Metcalfe wrote:As a rapidly improving player would Johnnys name come up when concidering team selections for olympiad or european team champs.
Yes.

William Metcalfe
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by William Metcalfe » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:15 pm

Thanks Loz the reason i asked were 2 fold it would probably speed up his progress and secondly he could be a bit of a suprise weapon for overseas opposition
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:36 pm

Consideration for selection, yes. Actual selection might be less obvious, unless lots of GMs and higher-rated players were unavailable. I presume that higher-rated players and GMs would be asked first. That said, I know very little about the selection process. I'd be more interested in the history of the teams - when was the last time anyone with a title lower than that of GM was selected for either event?

William Metcalfe
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by William Metcalfe » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:58 pm

Sorry Chris i have to disagree lets say Luke is unavailable due to work commitments who do you think could do a better job on board 5.
We should be picking players that are on a roll that are improving at a rapid rate especially if there are no stand out candidates for board 5 if Luke is unavailable.
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

AustinElliott
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by AustinElliott » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:14 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:I'd be more interested in the history of the teams - when was the last time anyone with a title lower than that of GM was selected for either event?
If you're into ancient history, you could also ask the 'reciprocal' question: when was the last time an England team had no GMs in it. I have an old Batsford book of the 1974 Nice Olympiad, which suggests that might be the answer - the England team, in board order:

Hartston (beat Portisch, had better of game against Karpov but missed probable win)
Keene (scored 1st GM norm)
Penrose
Whiteley
Stean (scored 1st IM norm, won best game prize for much-anthologised sacrificial win against Walter Browne)
Markland

Only Penrose (IM 1961) and Keene (IM 1972, I guess before the Olympiad) were titled at all.

Needless to say, the USSR team won the Olympiad: in board order Karpov, Korchnoi, Spassky, Petrosian, Tal and Kuzmin. Not a bad team.

AustinElliott
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PS

Post by AustinElliott » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:18 pm

As a PS to that last one, and perhaps relevant to the discussion, I'd guess that several of the Miles/Stean/Mestel/Nunn/Speelman 1970s/80s GM generation played in international team events pretty young, and probably before they had their GM, or sometimes even their IM, titles.

Alan Walton
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by Alan Walton » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:19 am

William Metcalfe wrote:Sorry Chris i have to disagree lets say Luke is unavailable due to work commitments who do you think could do a better job on board 5.
We should be picking players that are on a roll that are improving at a rapid rate especially if there are no stand out candidates for board 5 if Luke is unavailable.
Is not the following still ahead of Jonathan, if you exclude Micky, Nigel, David H, and Gawain (all the below have been consistently above 2500)

Nick Pert
Stephen Gordon
Stewart Haslinger
Danny Gormally
Simon Williams

One thing maybe Jon has to do is play tournaments abroad as well, gaining foreign experience will certainly help his improvement and maybe selection

William Metcalfe
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by William Metcalfe » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:27 am

Which of those players would you put your own money on to beat the Hawk plus 3 or 4 players in that list have had a chance before did they do enough when they played for England to keep the place ?.
I thaught the ECFs charter was to encourage and promote chess what a great boost players not from the south east would get by seeing somebody from the regions representing England
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

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Rob Thompson
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by Rob Thompson » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:23 am

William Metcalfe wrote:Which of those players would you put your own money on to beat the Hawk plus 3 or 4 players in that list have had a chance before did they do enough when they played for England to keep the place ?.
I thaught the ECFs charter was to encourage and promote chess what a great boost players not from the south east would get by seeing somebody from the regions representing England
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Haslinger is from nowhere near the SE. I worked that out from approximately 20 seconds of research. It's amazing what you can find if you actually bother looking, instead of just making groundless, baseless assertions with no fact-checking whatsoever.
True glory lies in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read.

William Metcalfe
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by William Metcalfe » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:20 am

I know where haslinger is from so do not insult my inteligence and guess what unlike you i did not have to do some sort of search.
Do you know where Johnny is from it really is in the middle of nowere its a 60 min journey from darlo head out into the countryside and keep driving lol.
He does not work or drive that is the reason he does not play abroud Alan its a matter of cost hopefully that will change in the future
I am speaking here for myself and not the NCCU which i am now president of

Paul Cooksey

Re: J Hawkins

Post by Paul Cooksey » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:05 am

William Metcalfe wrote:I thaught the ECFs charter was to encourage and promote chess what a great boost players not from the south east would get by seeing somebody from the regions representing England
I'd be happy to see Hawkins in the England team on merit, his fast improvement means it would be reasonable to pick him ahead of some players with higher ratings.

I don't accept that there is any existing discrimination on geography, or a need for positive discrimination. Players from Cornwall, Lancashire, Leicestershire come to mind.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:10 am

William Metcalfe wrote:I thaught the ECFs charter was to encourage and promote chess what a great boost players not from the south east would get by seeing somebody from the regions representing England

As far as the International team is concerned, the remit should be to select the team most likely within the finance available to score the highest finishing position. Any notion of regional quotas has no place in this.

Mick Norris
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by Mick Norris » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:20 am

AustinElliott wrote:I have an old Batsford book of the 1974 Nice Olympiad, which suggests that might be the answer - the England team, in board order:

Hartston
Keene
Penrose
Whiteley
Stean
Markland
Interesting geographical spread? Markland is from Bolton I believe

Of the current team, we have Short from Bolton, Adams from Cornwall, is Howell from Sussex and Gawain from Yorkshire? No north east players, but no regional bias either

Stephen Gordon is from Greater Manchester, Stewart Haslinger from Merseyside, Mark Hebden from Leics, I think Danny Gormally is Kent, but has been in the North East and also plays for Heywood in Greater Manchester

I think Hawkins may well be worth a go, but if we are not sending our top players to the European due to funding issues, then there are lots of potential players to choose from
Any postings on here represent my personal views

Roger de Coverly
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Re: J Hawkins

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:40 am

AustinElliott wrote:If you're into ancient history, you could also ask the 'reciprocal' question: when was the last time an England team had no GMs in it. I have an old Batsford book of the 1974 Nice Olympiad, which suggests that might be the answer - the England team, in board order:
For no GMs, that has to be the answer. Miles had the title by then.

It wasn't until 1990 that the team was 100% GM despite having come second a number of times in the years before. In 1984 Short, in 1986 Flear and 1988 Watson were all nominally IMs at the time . Stats from http://www.olimpbase.org/

The 1990 team was
Short
Speelman
Nunn
Adams
Chandler
Hodgson

It shows where we used to rank in World chess. That team finished third (on tie break) behind the USSR and the USA. At least two members of that team (Adams and Hodgson) were regular players on the weekend Congress scene. To find out the latest theory in the Tromp, you just had to look at the top board games in the Open.