English players with IM and GM norms

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Does anyone know of a list of English (technically ENG-registered) players who currently hold GM and IM norms (but don't currently hold those titles)? I know this would range from those who got such norms as one-offs due to a great tournament (sometimes a long time ago!), to those who are steadily accumulating the norms and rating points and are probably on course to gain the respective titles, to those who fall in between those extremes. I can think of half a dozen names off the top of my head, but it would be nice to have a complete list. I've never seen a definitive list maintained publicly anywhere. If such a list exists, would it be possible for it to be published somewhere and kept up-to-date? Maybe to include WLS, SCO and IRE (Wales, Scotland and Ireland) players as well?

[Roger de Coverly]

I can think of half a dozen names off the top of my head, but it would be nice to have a complete list. I've never seen a definitive list maintained publicly anywhere. If such a list exists, would it be possible for it to be published somewhere and kept up-to-date?

I think up to a point it would be part of the job spec of the International Rating Officer. This has come up before, in that the FIDE rating site purports to keep track, but it's probably incomplete.

Individuals should know their personal status, so a comprehensive list becomes a "nice to have" rather than "an absolute essential".

Musing about recent norms, I would suggest a minimum standard of at least one IM per year of birth and arguably they have to get there before they are thirty. For the England team, you need GM status and for preference 2550 and above. That would usually require becoming an IM at a young age.

[Sean Hewitt]

I've never seen a definitive list maintained publicly anywhere. If such a list exists, would it be possible for it to be published somewhere and kept up-to-date?

FIDE keep such a list, and they certainly keep it up to date but it seems that it was only started recently as older norms don't seem to appear. I suspect that if they were resubmitted they would put them up. All the ones that I've issued seem to be there.

GM http://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.pht ... ountry=ENG

IM http://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.pht ... ountry=ENG

[Paolo Casaschi]

FIDE keep such a list, and they certainly keep it up to date but it seems that it was only started recently as older norms don't seem to appear.

Do norms expire after a number of years?
That would explain removing old ones...

[LawrenceCooper]

FIDE keep such a list, and they certainly keep it up to date but it seems that it was only started recently as older norms don't seem to appear.

Do norms expire after a number of years?
That would explain removing old ones...

They used to expire but now they don't.

I have a fairly up-to-date list that I'm currently working on, there seems to be a big issue with norm certificates for English players not being submitted to FIDE in the past which is something I need to sort out.

[David Sedgwick]

FIDE keep such a list, and they certainly keep it up to date but it seems that it was only started recently as older norms don't seem to appear.

Do norms expire after a number of years?
That would explain removing old ones...

Norms for players (as opposed to arbiters, etc) no longer expire, although they used to do so.

I think the explanation lies more in:

a) Federations not submitting norms to FIDE until a player has completed the requirements for a title;
b) The internet not having been as well developed as it is now;
c) The FIDE Ratings Office not always having been as efficient as it currently seems to be. (Keep up the good work, guys.)

(Edit: Second again)

[Sean Hewitt]

I have a fairly up-to-date list that I'm currently working on, there seems to be a big issue with norm certificates for English players not being submitted to FIDE in the past which is something I need to sort out.

A previous IRO didn't used to like me sending my norms direct to FIDE (even though organisers are supposed to do this). It's interesting that norms issued by me and submitted direct to FIDE do not appear to be amongst those missing!

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Thanks, Sean, for pointing out that the FIDE list is being kept updated (last time I looked, last year, it had less entries!). I think even some of the older ones are there, as one is from 1993-4 (Brown) and two are from 1992 (Harley and Hon).

[IM Jack Rudd]

Moved to International News.

[Roger de Coverly]

The Australian forum is suggesting that FIDE are trying to trace all pre 2005 Norms
http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=14242
and putting an expiry deadline on those not registered.

[LawrenceCooper]

The Australian forum is suggesting that FIDE are trying to trace all pre 2005 Norms
http://www.chesschat.org/showthread.php?t=14242
and putting an expiry deadline on those not registered.

I'd heard it was pre 2003 but I'm waiting for FIDE to confirm if they do have a record of the fifty or so English norms that are currently missing from the FIDE site.

[Jonathan Rogers]

It's not just old noms that are missing from the FIDE site. Chris Dorrington's norm in 4NCL 2010/11 is missing too.

[LawrenceCooper]

It's not just old noms that are missing from the FIDE site. Chris Dorrington's norm in 4NCL 2010/11 is missing too.

Yes I know, it's quite alarming that so many are missing.

[Richard Bates]

If you find any laying about in the ECF office, could you see if they've still got my title medal and certificate sitting in a cupboard somewhere?