Chess Player Strip Searched

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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:24 am

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Thanks for posting that. I only ever once played under anything like time controls like that, at Hastings in 1995-6, when they still had adjournments. It is easy to forget that at one time you could easily have multiple adjournments in the same game. And thinking for an hour over a sealed move is completely alien to league chess of course!
Placing it in context, the move rate would have been 40 moves in 150 minutes, followed by a perpetual 16 moves in 60 minutes. This would have been the move rate in the British Championship Congress including the Major Open and the Under-21. Other domestic tournaments using that move rate would have been the Hastings Premier and Challengers.

Adjudication culture was well established, so only in the London League and the events mentioned would it be likely that you ever played many games beyond move 40. So the combination of a lack of confidence in how to play the position, as witnessed by the long think on the sealed move, the weak sealed move itself and the unexpected reply, could all add up to a draw offer. Rapidplay tournaments, where you are expected to make snap decisions, particularly in endings, were in their infancy in 1976.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:42 am

John Saunders wrote: That's because British chess magazines understand that if they include unsubstantiated gossip in their pages, they stand a chance of someone suing their pants off.
It must always be possible to report that Dutch magazines made accusations, refuted by American magazines that noted the time taken over the sealed move and the consequent time pressure.

To this day magazines censor difficult news. Apparently a senior figure in a chess charity has been convicted of aiding and abetting a benefit fraud. I didn't read about it in a chess magazine.

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John Saunders
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by John Saunders » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:01 am

As always, a breath of fresh air and good sense from Richard. Yes, absolutely, Carl might usefully remove all the posts back to and including Chris's unfortunate cut and paste from FB. Perhaps the time has also come to lock this rather elderly thread?
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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:14 am

Do you mean when they're made initially, or in the sense of reheating old ones?
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Richard Bates
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:19 am

JustinHorton wrote:Do you mean when they're made initially, or in the sense of reheating old ones?
The latter. Part of my point was that what might have seemed utterly normal 40 years ago, might look far more suspicious to the modern player.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:42 pm

Chris Rice wrote:Well Carl can take whatever decision he sees fit of course. It should be remembered that this is not just anybody but Emil Sutovsky, head of the Association of Chess Professionals and connected pretty much to the entire chess community. If he says something everyone knows about it.
Which makes it all the more unacceptable for him to post such comments.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:01 pm

Of course it is always possible to be sued when one has written or published almost anything, even if it be true, since the litigant can argue that it is not true, and make the defendant prove otherwise.

However it is a matter of simple observation that all kinds of publications, including those which appear in print, report (and are allowed to report) that allegations have been made against party X by party Y. Indeed if this were not so, we would know about the Twitter incident which occurred above. Indeed we wouldn't know that anybody had ever made any serious allegations against anybody else. But, of course, we do, and must do so in a free society.

The law may occasionally or even often be an ass, but it does not go out of its way to make an ass of itself and it is intrinsically unlikely that it would take a serious view of a discussion of an allegation made thirty-eight years ago which swiftly and decisively concluded that the allegation was unfounded. Why take the chance? Well, why take the chance of spending many pages over many months discussing recent allegations of cheating against a Bulgarian player. But the forum chose to, and rightly so in my view because it is in the public interest to have matters of importance openly discussed and debated. Yet posters reporting the allegations against Mr Ivanov could, theoretically, have been sued at any time.
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John Saunders
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by John Saunders » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:11 pm

My general thesis stands, that you can't be sure that the law would be interpreted in the way you say. I'm not sure the adverbs 'swiftly' and 'decisively' reflect what actually happened. Some 36 hours elapsed between the original post and the one which established to universal* satisfaction the the allegation was unfounded. That is arguably plenty of time in which to cause hurt. This happens all the time with newspapers: they publish something uncorroborated one day and have to make a grovelling apology the next. I've not seen any sign of an apology here yet. And the fact that all this has been dredged up from so long time ago makes it worse, in my opinion. I'm not sure your link between the two matters of discussion in this thread is terribly helpful.

* Not quite universal satisfaction, unfortunately. To yours and mine and some other members of the forum, it seems, but apparently not to Emil Sutovsky, who has been shown the US magazine account posted here by Ken Regan but tells me he still intends to discuss the matter later with Genna Sosonko, who seems to be responsible for reheating this ancient allegation and telling Emil about it. All of which I find quite perplexing. As another John famously put it: "you cannot be serious".
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Richard Bates
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:07 pm

Rapid engaging of reverse gear I see...

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JustinHorton
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by JustinHorton » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:15 pm

There's some remarkable comments on that thread.
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"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

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John Saunders
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by John Saunders » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:20 pm

You're so right again, Richard. Since I see Emil makes this FB thread open to the world, perhaps there is no harm in quoting him...
Emil Sutovsky on Facebook wrote:GM Sosonko was not going to talk anymore about this case (actually he insists, that his name should not have been linked to the story, even if it was a "common knowledge" in Dutch chess circles) , so probably one should refer to the Dutch publications of that time or to have some other evidence.
To which the correct response should I think be "ha!".
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:26 pm

John Saunders wrote:As always, a breath of fresh air and good sense from Richard. Yes, absolutely, Carl might usefully remove all the posts back to and including Chris's unfortunate cut and paste from FB. Perhaps the time has also come to lock this rather elderly thread?
I think so and please feel free to report any posts with the red exclamation button if more attention is needed.
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Carl Hibbard

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Carl Hibbard » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:48 pm

Carl Hibbard wrote:
John Saunders wrote:As always, a breath of fresh air and good sense from Richard. Yes, absolutely, Carl might usefully remove all the posts back to and including Chris's unfortunate cut and paste from FB. Perhaps the time has also come to lock this rather elderly thread?
I think so and please feel free to report any posts with the red exclamation button if more attention is needed.
After a second read I feel I was wrong in this case for which I apologise and a fair bit of moderation has been made.
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Carl Hibbard

Brian Towers
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Brian Towers » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:16 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: I don't think the FIDE system can be that simple as the ECF have yet to load the results for the British Championship Congress.
Roger, on Monday (2 days ago) I played in my club rapid championship - Herzliya Rapid Chess Championship 2014. The results have already been uploaded into the FIDE rating system and you can check them out here - https://ratings.fide.com/tournament_rep ... t16=106272 . It's not rocket science. More like computer science. Oh, and the chief arbiter and one of the deputy arbiters were the club's two international arbiters and the other arbiter was a lowly national arbiter. National arbiters in Israel have to score at least 60% on the FIDE arbiter's exam (potential FAs and IAs need 80%).
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

Brian Towers
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Re: Chess Player Strip Searched

Post by Brian Towers » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:30 pm

Graham Borrowdale wrote: I would be interested to know if other countries run evening leagues which are FIDE-rated.
In Israel most league matches take place on a Saturday. However there are (or were a few years ago when the team I play for had a match against a religious side) league matches on a Thursday evening for religious teams who won't play on a Saturday. All league matches are FIDE rated.

Our club also runs two evening competitions during the school terms, one FIDE rated for over 1800s and one non-FIDE rated (but with at least one FIDE national arbiter in charge) for under 1800s. These start at 6:30pm and are with a 90m+30s time control. The club aims to shut about 11pm although this can stretch to 11:30 if someone has a particularly long game.
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.

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