I am questioning the received wisdom of using a single engine. Why not submit the games being analysed to a panel of engines and record a match if any of the engines agrees with the human choice? In on-line chess, it's a plausible hypothesis that at least some players are making use of engine or computer assistance in a manner deemed against the rules of the site. Over the board, given the style of the contest, cheaters are the outliers, since you have to indulge in obviously suspicious behaviour such as leaving the board every move, have an accomplice signal or communicate moves or carry concealed hardware containing the engine. So a higher standard of proof is needed if you are going to try to make inferences from the moves played.Steve Collyer wrote: If I used a weaker engine than Houdini, I wonder if you'd then be questioning the validity of my analysis as a result of not using the strongest freely available program? Just a thought...
Chess Player Strip Searched
-
Roger de Coverly
- Posts: 21314
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
-
Geoff Chandler
- Posts: 3494
- Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:36 pm
- Location: Under Cover
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Borislav Ivanov has had his say in a brilliannt article on ChessBase.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8781
He is not a cheat, he is just a better chess player than Rybka & Houdini.
"Of course I practiced a lot with the computer, and after beating Rybka and Houdini by 10-0 each,
I was absolutelly sure that no-one was gonna stop me winning."
On RHP I'm sure the same idiot cheats do it time and time again for a laugh.
There may be a whole gang of them seeing who can take the longest to get caught.
They do it for the develiment, this Borislav Ivanov lad is just wanting to get laid.
"before the Zadar Scandal I wasn't so popular at all, but now I see that the more
time is turning the more my popularity rises."
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=8781
He is not a cheat, he is just a better chess player than Rybka & Houdini.
"Of course I practiced a lot with the computer, and after beating Rybka and Houdini by 10-0 each,
I was absolutelly sure that no-one was gonna stop me winning."
On RHP I'm sure the same idiot cheats do it time and time again for a laugh.
There may be a whole gang of them seeing who can take the longest to get caught.
They do it for the develiment, this Borislav Ivanov lad is just wanting to get laid.
"before the Zadar Scandal I wasn't so popular at all, but now I see that the more
time is turning the more my popularity rises."
-
Mick Norris
- Posts: 10360
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
- Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
SteveSteve Collyer wrote:I should also say that the reason I use Houdini for this analysis is that it is the strongest engine available & simply refuses to crash during batch analysis.
I've tried many engines, namely Deep Fritz, Deep Rybka, Shredder & a few others. The only engine that seems to occasionally give strange results (either high or low) is Stockfish.
If I used a weaker engine than Houdini, I wonder if you'd then be questioning the validity of my analysis as a result of not using the strongest freely available program? Just a thought...
You can see Ivanov's previous games here:
http://ratings.fide.com/view_games.phtm ... av(BUL)%22
Any postings on here represent my personal views
-
Steve Collyer
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:07 am
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Ok thanks Mick.
It might be interesting to compare Ivanov's engine match rates for the games played in the year prior to the recent tourney with those played in Croatia.
Edit:
From the link in your post above, I'm analysing these games which were played prior to Zadar 19th.
I wanted a medium sized batch, so I chose the first 13 games as shown below. These should all have 20 or more non-database moves. A couple of games were excluded because they're too short.
Hopefully the non-database sample size should be similar to the 9 games from Zadar 19th for comparison purposes.
[Event "18th Open B"]
[Site "Zadar"]
[Date "2011.12.13"]
[Round "4.2"]
[White "Kristovic, Marijan"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D94"]
[WhiteElo "2270"]
[BlackElo "2196"]
[PlyCount "69"]
[EventDate "2011.12.11"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "CRO"]
[Source "crochess.com"]
[SourceDate "2011.12.11"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. h3 Bg7 7. Nf3 O-O 8. Be3
Nc6 9. Be2 Bf5 10. O-O dxc4 11. Bxc4 Rc8 12. Bd3 Bxd3 13. Qxd3 Qd7 14. Rad1
Rfd8 15. Rfe1 Nd5 16. Qd2 Nxc3 17. bxc3 Qd5 18. Bh6 Bh8 19. Qe2 b5 20. Rb1 a6
21. a4 bxa4 22. Ra1 Qa5 23. Ra3 Rb8 24. Qa2 Rb3 25. Rxa4 Qxc3 26. Rc1 Qd3 27.
Rxc6 Rb1+ 28. Kh2 Qd1 29. Rcxa6 Qh1+ 30. Kg3 Bg7 31. Ra8 Bxh6 32. Rxd8+ Kg7 33.
Qd5 Qc1 34. Qe5+ f6 35. Qxe7# 1-0
[Event "18th Open B"]
[Site "Zadar"]
[Date "2011.12.14"]
[Round "6.9"]
[White "Deur, Zrinka"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B19"]
[WhiteElo "2076"]
[BlackElo "2196"]
[PlyCount "93"]
[EventDate "2011.12.11"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "CRO"]
[Source "crochess.com"]
[SourceDate "2011.12.11"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. Nf3 Nd7 7. h4 h6 8. h5
Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 e6 11. Bd2 Ngf6 12. Ne4 Qc7 13. O-O-O O-O-O 14. g3
Nxe4 15. Qxe4 Nf6 16. Qe2 Bd6 17. Kb1 Rhe8 18. c4 c5 19. Bc3 a6 20. Rc1 Re7 21.
Ne5 cxd4 22. Bxd4 Bxe5 23. Bxe5 Qc5 24. Rhd1 Red7 25. Rxd7 Rxd7 26. f4 Qa5 27.
c5 Qd2 28. Qxd2 Rxd2 29. c6 b5 30. c7 Nxh5 31. Rc6 f6 32. Bd6 Nxg3 33. Rxa6
Rxd6 34. Rxd6 e5 35. fxe5 fxe5 36. Re6 Kxc7 37. Re7+ Kd6 38. Rxg7 Nf5 39. Rb7
Kc5 40. Rf7 Nd4 41. Rf6 e4 42. Rxh6 e3 43. Rh3 Nf5 44. Kc2 Kd4 45. Rh8 Ng3 46.
Rd8+ Ke5 47. Kd3 1-0
[Event "18th Open B"]
[Site "Zadar"]
[Date "2011.12.17"]
[Round "9.5"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Vidovic, Ante"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A48"]
[WhiteElo "2196"]
[BlackElo "2080"]
[PlyCount "58"]
[EventDate "2011.12.11"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "CRO"]
[Source "crochess.com"]
[SourceDate "2011.12.11"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. h3 O-O 5. e3 d6 6. c3 Nbd7 7. Be2 Ne4 8. Nbd2
f5 9. Nxe4 fxe4 10. Qb3+ Kh8 11. Ng5 e5 12. Ne6 Nc5 13. dxc5 Bxe6 14. Qxe6 exf4
15. exf4 dxc5 16. Rd1 Qf6 17. Qxf6 Rxf6 18. Rd7 Rb6 19. O-O Rxb2 20. Bc4 Bxc3
21. Rxc7 Rd8 22. Rxc5 Rdd2 23. Rc8+ Kg7 24. Rc7+ Kf8 25. Rc1 b5 26. Bb3 Rxf2
27. Rc8+ Kg7 28. R1xc3 Rxg2+ 29. Kh1 Rh2+ 1/2-1/2
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.16"]
[Round "1.4"]
[White "Nestorovic, Lazar"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B12"]
[WhiteElo "2428"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "98"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. c4 e6 5. Nc3 dxc4 6. Bxc4 Nd7 7. Nf3 Ne7 8. Bg5
Nb6 9. Be2 h6 10. Bh4 Qd7 11. O-O Bg4 12. Bxe7 Bxe7 13. a4 a5 14. Qb3 Bxf3 15.
Bxf3 Qxd4 16. Rfe1 Qb4 17. Qc2 Nd5 18. Ne4 O-O 19. Ng3 Rad8 20. Re4 Qb6 21. Nh5
Nb4 22. Qe2 Bg5 23. h4 Rd2 24. Qf1 Be7 25. Be2 Rfd8 26. Rg4 Bf8 27. Ra3 R8d4
28. Nf6+ Kh8 29. Ne4 Rxb2 30. Rf3 Rd7 31. Qc1 Rxe2 32. Rfg3 g6 33. h5 Nd3 34.
Rxd3 Rxd3 35. Qf4 Re1+ 36. Kh2 Qd4 37. Qxf7 Qxe5+ 38. g3 Qg7 39. Qe8 g5 40. Kg2
Rd4 41. Nf6 Rxg4 42. Nxg4 Re4 43. Nh2 Rxa4 44. Qxe6 Rb4 45. Nf3 Rb5 46. Qe4 Rd5
47. Nh2 Qd4 48. Qg6 Rd6 49. Qf7 Qd5+ 0-1
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.17"]
[Round "2.3"]
[White "Saric, Sinisa"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D31"]
[WhiteElo "2472"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "94"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 e6 5. Bd2 Nbd7 6. Rc1 Be7 7. cxd5 exd5 8.
Bd3 Nf8 9. Nge2 Bg4 10. f3 Bh5 11. Ng3 Bg6 12. Nf5 Bxf5 13. Bxf5 Ne6 14. O-O
O-O 15. Be1 Ne8 16. Bg3 Bd6 17. Be5 Bxe5 18. dxe5 Qg5 19. Qd3 g6 20. Bxe6 fxe6
21. f4 Qe7 22. e4 Nc7 23. Qg3 Rae8 24. exd5 exd5 25. Ne2 Kh8 26. Qe3 Ne6 27. a3
c5 28. Ng3 Nd4 29. Rf2 b6 30. b4 Rc8 31. h3 Rce8 32. Kh2 Rb8 33. Qd3 Rbd8 34.
Qe3 Rb8 35. Re1 Qh4 36. Rd1 Qe7 37. Qd3 Qh4 38. Rdf1 Qe7 39. Rc1 Rbc8 40. Re1
Rce8 41. Rc1 Rc8 42. Qe3 Rb8 43. Rb2 Rbc8 44. Rf2 Rce8 45. Rb2 Rc8 46. Rf2 Rce8
47. Rb2 Rc8 1/2-1/2
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.17"]
[Round "3.6"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Ardeleanu, Alin"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E91"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2394"]
[PlyCount "92"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 O-O 5. Nf3 d6 6. Be2 Bg4 7. Be3 Nfd7 8. Rc1
e5 9. d5 f5 10. Ng5 f4 11. Bxg4 Qxg5 12. h4 Qe7 13. Bd2 Nc5 14. Qc2 h5 15. Bf3
a5 16. b3 Nbd7 17. a3 a4 18. Nxa4 Nxa4 19. bxa4 b6 20. Bb4 Bf6 21. g4 fxg3 22.
fxg3 Bxh4 23. gxh4 Rxf3 24. Qg2 Qf7 25. Ke2 Rf4 26. Rcf1 Rg4 27. Qxg4 hxg4 28.
Rxf7 Kxf7 29. h5 Nf6 30. hxg6+ Kxg6 31. Kd3 Nh5 32. a5 bxa5 33. Bd2 a4 34. Rg1
Nf6 35. Rh1 Rb8 36. Bb4 Nh5 37. c5 dxc5 38. Bxc5 Rb3+ 39. Kc4 Nf6 40. Re1 g3
41. Bb4 g2 42. Rg1 Rg3 43. d6 cxd6 44. Bxd6 Nxe4 45. Bxe5 Rg4 46. Kb5 Nd2 0-1
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.18"]
[Round "4.14"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Vujic, Mihailo"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D02"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2321"]
[PlyCount "107"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Bf4 Bg4 4. e3 e6 5. c4 Nf6 6. Nc3 Bb4 7. Rc1 O-O 8. h3
Bxf3 9. Qxf3 Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 Qe7 11. Bd3 dxc4 12. Bxc4 e5 13. Bg5 Rfe8 14. O-O
Na5 15. Be2 c5 16. dxe5 Qxe5 17. Bxf6 Qxf6 18. Qxf6 gxf6 19. Rfd1 Rad8 20. Kf1
Kf8 21. Bb5 Nc6 22. Ke2 Ke7 23. Bxc6 bxc6 24. Rxd8 Kxd8 25. Rb1 Kc7 26. Rb3 Re4
27. Ra3 Kb6 28. g3 c4 29. Ra4 a5 30. Kf3 f5 31. g4 Kb5 32. Ra3 Re5 33. Kf4 fxg4
34. hxg4 Re6 35. Kf5 c5 36. e4 a4 37. e5 Ra6 38. f4 h6 39. Ke4 Kc6 40. g5 h5
41. f5 Ra8 42. e6 fxe6 43. f6 Kd7 44. g6 Ke8 45. Kf4 Ra6 46. Kg5 e5 47. f7+ Kf8
48. Kh6 h4 49. Kh7 Ra8 50. Rxa4 Rxa4 51. g7+ Kxf7 52. g8=Q+ Kf6 53. Qd8+ Kf5
54. Qd7+ 1-0
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.19"]
[Round "5.9"]
[White "Klasan, Vladimir"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B13"]
[WhiteElo "2352"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. c3 Nf6 6. h3 e5 7. dxe5 Nxe5 8.
Qe2 Qe7 9. Bc2 Bd7 10. Nd2 O-O-O 11. Ngf3 Nc6 12. Qxe7 Bxe7 13. Nb3 Bd6 14. Be3
Be6 15. O-O-O Bc7 16. Rhe1 Rhe8 17. Bg5 h6 18. Be3 Bd7 19. Nbd4 Bb6 20. Nf5
Bxe3+ 21. Rxe3 Bxf5 22. Bxf5+ Kc7 23. Rde1 Rxe3 24. Rxe3 Re8 25. Rxe8 Nxe8 26.
Kd2 Kd6 27. Ke3 Nc7 28. Bc8 b6 29. Nd4 Nxd4 30. Kxd4 Ne6+ 31. Bxe6 Kxe6 32. a3
Kd6 33. a4 f6 34. f4 Kc6 35. f5 Kd6 36. b4 h5 37. h4 a6 38. b5 a5 39. g3 1-0
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.20"]
[Round "6.11"]
[White "Balla, Tamas-Kristof"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A03"]
[WhiteElo "2406"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "101"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 c5 5. O-O Nf6 6. d3 Nc6 7. c3 O-O 8. Ne5
Qc7 9. Nxc6 Qxc6 10. Qc2 Qb6 11. h3 Bd7 12. Kh2 d4 13. e4 dxe3 14. Bxe3 Qc7 15.
Nd2 Rac8 16. Nc4 Bc6 17. Bxc6 Qxc6 18. Ne5 Qc7 19. Qg2 Nd7 20. Nf3 Qc6 21. d4
cxd4 22. Bxd4 Bxd4 23. Nxd4 Qxg2+ 24. Kxg2 e5 25. fxe5 Nxe5 26. Rae1 Nd3 27.
Re2 Rfe8 28. Rd2 Nc5 29. Nb5 Re3 30. Rxf7 Kxf7 31. Nd6+ Ke6 32. Nxc8 Ne4 33.
Rd4 Rxg3+ 34. Kh2 Re3 35. Nxa7 Ke5 36. Rb4 Kf4 37. Rxb7 Re2+ 38. Kg1 Kf3 39.
Rf7+ Kg3 40. Kf1 Rxb2 41. Ke1 Nxc3 42. Rxh7 Re2+ 43. Kf1 Rxa2 44. Re7 Ra1+ 45.
Re1 Rxe1+ 46. Kxe1 Kxh3 47. Nc6 g5 48. Ne5 Ne4 49. Kf1 Kh2 50. Nf3+ Kg3 51.
Nxg5 1/2-1/2
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.21"]
[Round "7.11"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Kovacs, Arthur"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E05"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2099"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. g3 Be7 5. Bg2 O-O 6. O-O dxc4 7. Qc2 a6 8. a4
Bd7 9. Qxc4 Bc6 10. Bf4 a5 11. Nc3 Na6 12. Ne5 Bxg2 13. Kxg2 c6 14. e4 Qb6 15.
Be3 Qb4 16. Qe2 c5 17. Nd3 Qc4 18. Rfc1 Nb4 19. Nxc5 Qxe2 20. Nxe2 b6 21. e5
bxc5 22. exf6 gxf6 23. dxc5 Nd3 24. Rc3 Nxb2 25. Nd4 Rfc8 26. Nb5 Rab8 27. Na7
Rc7 28. c6 Rb4 29. Rc2 Nxa4 30. Rxa4 Rxa4 31. Bb6 Bd6 32. Nb5 1-0
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.22"]
[Round "8.6"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Kumic, Filip"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E97"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2088"]
[PlyCount "104"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5
Ne7 9. b4 Ne8 10. c5 f5 11. Nd2 Nf6 12. f3 f4 13. a4 g5 14. Ba3 Ng6 15. Nc4 Rf7
16. b5 dxc5 17. Bxc5 h5 18. a5 g4 19. b6 g3 20. Kh1 Bf8 21. bxc7 Rxc7 22. Bg1
Bc5 23. Nb5 Bxg1 24. Nxc7 Nxe4 25. Ne6 Qh4 26. h3 Nf2+ 27. Rxf2 gxf2 28. Nd2
Bxe6 29. dxe6 Qg3 30. Nf1 Qg5 31. e7 Nh4 32. g4 fxg3 33. Nxg3 Qxg3 34. Qd8+ Kh7
35. Bd3+ Ng6 36. Bxg6+ Kg7 37. e8=N+ Kh6 38. Qd2+ Kxg6 39. Qd6+ Kf7 40. Qd7+
Kf8 41. Qf5+ Kxe8 42. Qxh5+ Kf8 43. Qh8+ Kf7 44. Qh7+ Qg7 45. Qf5+ Kg8 46. Rc1
Rf8 47. Qe6+ Kh7 48. Rc4 Rf4 49. Rxf4 exf4 50. Qf5+ Qg6 51. Qd7+ Kh6 52. Qb5
Qg3 0-1
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.23"]
[Round "9.12"]
[White "Amstadt, Aron"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D12"]
[WhiteElo "2281"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "67"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 Bf5 5. Nc3 e6 6. Nh4 Bg6 7. Nxg6 hxg6 8. g3
Nbd7 9. Bg2 dxc4 10. Qe2 e5 11. O-O Be7 12. Rd1 exd4 13. Rxd4 Qa5 14. Qxc4 Nb6
15. Qb3 Rd8 16. Rxd8+ Bxd8 17. e4 Bc7 18. h3 O-O 19. Be3 Rd8 20. Rc1 Bd6 21.
Rd1 Be7 22. Rxd8+ Bxd8 23. f4 Be7 24. e5 Bc5 25. Bxc5 Qxc5+ 26. Kh2 Nfd5 27.
Nxd5 Nxd5 28. Qxb7 Qc2 29. e6 fxe6 30. Qd7 Ne3 31. Qd8+ Kh7 32. Qh4+ Kg8 33.
Qd8+ Kh7 34. Qh4+ 1/2-1/2
It might be interesting to compare Ivanov's engine match rates for the games played in the year prior to the recent tourney with those played in Croatia.
Edit:
From the link in your post above, I'm analysing these games which were played prior to Zadar 19th.
I wanted a medium sized batch, so I chose the first 13 games as shown below. These should all have 20 or more non-database moves. A couple of games were excluded because they're too short.
Hopefully the non-database sample size should be similar to the 9 games from Zadar 19th for comparison purposes.
[Event "18th Open B"]
[Site "Zadar"]
[Date "2011.12.13"]
[Round "4.2"]
[White "Kristovic, Marijan"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D94"]
[WhiteElo "2270"]
[BlackElo "2196"]
[PlyCount "69"]
[EventDate "2011.12.11"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "CRO"]
[Source "crochess.com"]
[SourceDate "2011.12.11"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. h3 Bg7 7. Nf3 O-O 8. Be3
Nc6 9. Be2 Bf5 10. O-O dxc4 11. Bxc4 Rc8 12. Bd3 Bxd3 13. Qxd3 Qd7 14. Rad1
Rfd8 15. Rfe1 Nd5 16. Qd2 Nxc3 17. bxc3 Qd5 18. Bh6 Bh8 19. Qe2 b5 20. Rb1 a6
21. a4 bxa4 22. Ra1 Qa5 23. Ra3 Rb8 24. Qa2 Rb3 25. Rxa4 Qxc3 26. Rc1 Qd3 27.
Rxc6 Rb1+ 28. Kh2 Qd1 29. Rcxa6 Qh1+ 30. Kg3 Bg7 31. Ra8 Bxh6 32. Rxd8+ Kg7 33.
Qd5 Qc1 34. Qe5+ f6 35. Qxe7# 1-0
[Event "18th Open B"]
[Site "Zadar"]
[Date "2011.12.14"]
[Round "6.9"]
[White "Deur, Zrinka"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B19"]
[WhiteElo "2076"]
[BlackElo "2196"]
[PlyCount "93"]
[EventDate "2011.12.11"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "CRO"]
[Source "crochess.com"]
[SourceDate "2011.12.11"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. Nf3 Nd7 7. h4 h6 8. h5
Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 e6 11. Bd2 Ngf6 12. Ne4 Qc7 13. O-O-O O-O-O 14. g3
Nxe4 15. Qxe4 Nf6 16. Qe2 Bd6 17. Kb1 Rhe8 18. c4 c5 19. Bc3 a6 20. Rc1 Re7 21.
Ne5 cxd4 22. Bxd4 Bxe5 23. Bxe5 Qc5 24. Rhd1 Red7 25. Rxd7 Rxd7 26. f4 Qa5 27.
c5 Qd2 28. Qxd2 Rxd2 29. c6 b5 30. c7 Nxh5 31. Rc6 f6 32. Bd6 Nxg3 33. Rxa6
Rxd6 34. Rxd6 e5 35. fxe5 fxe5 36. Re6 Kxc7 37. Re7+ Kd6 38. Rxg7 Nf5 39. Rb7
Kc5 40. Rf7 Nd4 41. Rf6 e4 42. Rxh6 e3 43. Rh3 Nf5 44. Kc2 Kd4 45. Rh8 Ng3 46.
Rd8+ Ke5 47. Kd3 1-0
[Event "18th Open B"]
[Site "Zadar"]
[Date "2011.12.17"]
[Round "9.5"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Vidovic, Ante"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A48"]
[WhiteElo "2196"]
[BlackElo "2080"]
[PlyCount "58"]
[EventDate "2011.12.11"]
[EventType "swiss"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "CRO"]
[Source "crochess.com"]
[SourceDate "2011.12.11"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. Bf4 Bg7 4. h3 O-O 5. e3 d6 6. c3 Nbd7 7. Be2 Ne4 8. Nbd2
f5 9. Nxe4 fxe4 10. Qb3+ Kh8 11. Ng5 e5 12. Ne6 Nc5 13. dxc5 Bxe6 14. Qxe6 exf4
15. exf4 dxc5 16. Rd1 Qf6 17. Qxf6 Rxf6 18. Rd7 Rb6 19. O-O Rxb2 20. Bc4 Bxc3
21. Rxc7 Rd8 22. Rxc5 Rdd2 23. Rc8+ Kg7 24. Rc7+ Kf8 25. Rc1 b5 26. Bb3 Rxf2
27. Rc8+ Kg7 28. R1xc3 Rxg2+ 29. Kh1 Rh2+ 1/2-1/2
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.16"]
[Round "1.4"]
[White "Nestorovic, Lazar"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B12"]
[WhiteElo "2428"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "98"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. c4 e6 5. Nc3 dxc4 6. Bxc4 Nd7 7. Nf3 Ne7 8. Bg5
Nb6 9. Be2 h6 10. Bh4 Qd7 11. O-O Bg4 12. Bxe7 Bxe7 13. a4 a5 14. Qb3 Bxf3 15.
Bxf3 Qxd4 16. Rfe1 Qb4 17. Qc2 Nd5 18. Ne4 O-O 19. Ng3 Rad8 20. Re4 Qb6 21. Nh5
Nb4 22. Qe2 Bg5 23. h4 Rd2 24. Qf1 Be7 25. Be2 Rfd8 26. Rg4 Bf8 27. Ra3 R8d4
28. Nf6+ Kh8 29. Ne4 Rxb2 30. Rf3 Rd7 31. Qc1 Rxe2 32. Rfg3 g6 33. h5 Nd3 34.
Rxd3 Rxd3 35. Qf4 Re1+ 36. Kh2 Qd4 37. Qxf7 Qxe5+ 38. g3 Qg7 39. Qe8 g5 40. Kg2
Rd4 41. Nf6 Rxg4 42. Nxg4 Re4 43. Nh2 Rxa4 44. Qxe6 Rb4 45. Nf3 Rb5 46. Qe4 Rd5
47. Nh2 Qd4 48. Qg6 Rd6 49. Qf7 Qd5+ 0-1
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.17"]
[Round "2.3"]
[White "Saric, Sinisa"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D31"]
[WhiteElo "2472"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "94"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 e6 5. Bd2 Nbd7 6. Rc1 Be7 7. cxd5 exd5 8.
Bd3 Nf8 9. Nge2 Bg4 10. f3 Bh5 11. Ng3 Bg6 12. Nf5 Bxf5 13. Bxf5 Ne6 14. O-O
O-O 15. Be1 Ne8 16. Bg3 Bd6 17. Be5 Bxe5 18. dxe5 Qg5 19. Qd3 g6 20. Bxe6 fxe6
21. f4 Qe7 22. e4 Nc7 23. Qg3 Rae8 24. exd5 exd5 25. Ne2 Kh8 26. Qe3 Ne6 27. a3
c5 28. Ng3 Nd4 29. Rf2 b6 30. b4 Rc8 31. h3 Rce8 32. Kh2 Rb8 33. Qd3 Rbd8 34.
Qe3 Rb8 35. Re1 Qh4 36. Rd1 Qe7 37. Qd3 Qh4 38. Rdf1 Qe7 39. Rc1 Rbc8 40. Re1
Rce8 41. Rc1 Rc8 42. Qe3 Rb8 43. Rb2 Rbc8 44. Rf2 Rce8 45. Rb2 Rc8 46. Rf2 Rce8
47. Rb2 Rc8 1/2-1/2
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.17"]
[Round "3.6"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Ardeleanu, Alin"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E91"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2394"]
[PlyCount "92"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 O-O 5. Nf3 d6 6. Be2 Bg4 7. Be3 Nfd7 8. Rc1
e5 9. d5 f5 10. Ng5 f4 11. Bxg4 Qxg5 12. h4 Qe7 13. Bd2 Nc5 14. Qc2 h5 15. Bf3
a5 16. b3 Nbd7 17. a3 a4 18. Nxa4 Nxa4 19. bxa4 b6 20. Bb4 Bf6 21. g4 fxg3 22.
fxg3 Bxh4 23. gxh4 Rxf3 24. Qg2 Qf7 25. Ke2 Rf4 26. Rcf1 Rg4 27. Qxg4 hxg4 28.
Rxf7 Kxf7 29. h5 Nf6 30. hxg6+ Kxg6 31. Kd3 Nh5 32. a5 bxa5 33. Bd2 a4 34. Rg1
Nf6 35. Rh1 Rb8 36. Bb4 Nh5 37. c5 dxc5 38. Bxc5 Rb3+ 39. Kc4 Nf6 40. Re1 g3
41. Bb4 g2 42. Rg1 Rg3 43. d6 cxd6 44. Bxd6 Nxe4 45. Bxe5 Rg4 46. Kb5 Nd2 0-1
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.18"]
[Round "4.14"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Vujic, Mihailo"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "D02"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2321"]
[PlyCount "107"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 3. Bf4 Bg4 4. e3 e6 5. c4 Nf6 6. Nc3 Bb4 7. Rc1 O-O 8. h3
Bxf3 9. Qxf3 Bxc3+ 10. bxc3 Qe7 11. Bd3 dxc4 12. Bxc4 e5 13. Bg5 Rfe8 14. O-O
Na5 15. Be2 c5 16. dxe5 Qxe5 17. Bxf6 Qxf6 18. Qxf6 gxf6 19. Rfd1 Rad8 20. Kf1
Kf8 21. Bb5 Nc6 22. Ke2 Ke7 23. Bxc6 bxc6 24. Rxd8 Kxd8 25. Rb1 Kc7 26. Rb3 Re4
27. Ra3 Kb6 28. g3 c4 29. Ra4 a5 30. Kf3 f5 31. g4 Kb5 32. Ra3 Re5 33. Kf4 fxg4
34. hxg4 Re6 35. Kf5 c5 36. e4 a4 37. e5 Ra6 38. f4 h6 39. Ke4 Kc6 40. g5 h5
41. f5 Ra8 42. e6 fxe6 43. f6 Kd7 44. g6 Ke8 45. Kf4 Ra6 46. Kg5 e5 47. f7+ Kf8
48. Kh6 h4 49. Kh7 Ra8 50. Rxa4 Rxa4 51. g7+ Kxf7 52. g8=Q+ Kf6 53. Qd8+ Kf5
54. Qd7+ 1-0
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.19"]
[Round "5.9"]
[White "Klasan, Vladimir"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B13"]
[WhiteElo "2352"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "77"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Bd3 Nc6 5. c3 Nf6 6. h3 e5 7. dxe5 Nxe5 8.
Qe2 Qe7 9. Bc2 Bd7 10. Nd2 O-O-O 11. Ngf3 Nc6 12. Qxe7 Bxe7 13. Nb3 Bd6 14. Be3
Be6 15. O-O-O Bc7 16. Rhe1 Rhe8 17. Bg5 h6 18. Be3 Bd7 19. Nbd4 Bb6 20. Nf5
Bxe3+ 21. Rxe3 Bxf5 22. Bxf5+ Kc7 23. Rde1 Rxe3 24. Rxe3 Re8 25. Rxe8 Nxe8 26.
Kd2 Kd6 27. Ke3 Nc7 28. Bc8 b6 29. Nd4 Nxd4 30. Kxd4 Ne6+ 31. Bxe6 Kxe6 32. a3
Kd6 33. a4 f6 34. f4 Kc6 35. f5 Kd6 36. b4 h5 37. h4 a6 38. b5 a5 39. g3 1-0
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.20"]
[Round "6.11"]
[White "Balla, Tamas-Kristof"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A03"]
[WhiteElo "2406"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "101"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. f4 d5 2. Nf3 g6 3. g3 Bg7 4. Bg2 c5 5. O-O Nf6 6. d3 Nc6 7. c3 O-O 8. Ne5
Qc7 9. Nxc6 Qxc6 10. Qc2 Qb6 11. h3 Bd7 12. Kh2 d4 13. e4 dxe3 14. Bxe3 Qc7 15.
Nd2 Rac8 16. Nc4 Bc6 17. Bxc6 Qxc6 18. Ne5 Qc7 19. Qg2 Nd7 20. Nf3 Qc6 21. d4
cxd4 22. Bxd4 Bxd4 23. Nxd4 Qxg2+ 24. Kxg2 e5 25. fxe5 Nxe5 26. Rae1 Nd3 27.
Re2 Rfe8 28. Rd2 Nc5 29. Nb5 Re3 30. Rxf7 Kxf7 31. Nd6+ Ke6 32. Nxc8 Ne4 33.
Rd4 Rxg3+ 34. Kh2 Re3 35. Nxa7 Ke5 36. Rb4 Kf4 37. Rxb7 Re2+ 38. Kg1 Kf3 39.
Rf7+ Kg3 40. Kf1 Rxb2 41. Ke1 Nxc3 42. Rxh7 Re2+ 43. Kf1 Rxa2 44. Re7 Ra1+ 45.
Re1 Rxe1+ 46. Kxe1 Kxh3 47. Nc6 g5 48. Ne5 Ne4 49. Kf1 Kh2 50. Nf3+ Kg3 51.
Nxg5 1/2-1/2
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.21"]
[Round "7.11"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Kovacs, Arthur"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E05"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2099"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. g3 Be7 5. Bg2 O-O 6. O-O dxc4 7. Qc2 a6 8. a4
Bd7 9. Qxc4 Bc6 10. Bf4 a5 11. Nc3 Na6 12. Ne5 Bxg2 13. Kxg2 c6 14. e4 Qb6 15.
Be3 Qb4 16. Qe2 c5 17. Nd3 Qc4 18. Rfc1 Nb4 19. Nxc5 Qxe2 20. Nxe2 b6 21. e5
bxc5 22. exf6 gxf6 23. dxc5 Nd3 24. Rc3 Nxb2 25. Nd4 Rfc8 26. Nb5 Rab8 27. Na7
Rc7 28. c6 Rb4 29. Rc2 Nxa4 30. Rxa4 Rxa4 31. Bb6 Bd6 32. Nb5 1-0
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.22"]
[Round "8.6"]
[White "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Black "Kumic, Filip"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "E97"]
[WhiteElo "2201"]
[BlackElo "2088"]
[PlyCount "104"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5
Ne7 9. b4 Ne8 10. c5 f5 11. Nd2 Nf6 12. f3 f4 13. a4 g5 14. Ba3 Ng6 15. Nc4 Rf7
16. b5 dxc5 17. Bxc5 h5 18. a5 g4 19. b6 g3 20. Kh1 Bf8 21. bxc7 Rxc7 22. Bg1
Bc5 23. Nb5 Bxg1 24. Nxc7 Nxe4 25. Ne6 Qh4 26. h3 Nf2+ 27. Rxf2 gxf2 28. Nd2
Bxe6 29. dxe6 Qg3 30. Nf1 Qg5 31. e7 Nh4 32. g4 fxg3 33. Nxg3 Qxg3 34. Qd8+ Kh7
35. Bd3+ Ng6 36. Bxg6+ Kg7 37. e8=N+ Kh6 38. Qd2+ Kxg6 39. Qd6+ Kf7 40. Qd7+
Kf8 41. Qf5+ Kxe8 42. Qxh5+ Kf8 43. Qh8+ Kf7 44. Qh7+ Qg7 45. Qf5+ Kg8 46. Rc1
Rf8 47. Qe6+ Kh7 48. Rc4 Rf4 49. Rxf4 exf4 50. Qf5+ Qg6 51. Qd7+ Kh6 52. Qb5
Qg3 0-1
[Event "Senta A 2011"]
[Site "Senta"]
[Date "2011.07.23"]
[Round "9.12"]
[White "Amstadt, Aron"]
[Black "Ivanov, Borislav"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D12"]
[WhiteElo "2281"]
[BlackElo "2201"]
[PlyCount "67"]
[EventDate "2011.07.16"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 Bf5 5. Nc3 e6 6. Nh4 Bg6 7. Nxg6 hxg6 8. g3
Nbd7 9. Bg2 dxc4 10. Qe2 e5 11. O-O Be7 12. Rd1 exd4 13. Rxd4 Qa5 14. Qxc4 Nb6
15. Qb3 Rd8 16. Rxd8+ Bxd8 17. e4 Bc7 18. h3 O-O 19. Be3 Rd8 20. Rc1 Bd6 21.
Rd1 Be7 22. Rxd8+ Bxd8 23. f4 Be7 24. e5 Bc5 25. Bxc5 Qxc5+ 26. Kh2 Nfd5 27.
Nxd5 Nxd5 28. Qxb7 Qc2 29. e6 fxe6 30. Qd7 Ne3 31. Qd8+ Kh7 32. Qh4+ Kg8 33.
Qd8+ Kh7 34. Qh4+ 1/2-1/2
-
Greg Breed
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:30 am
- Location: Aylesbury, Bucks, UK
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Hi Steve,
You can put "pgn" at the beginning and "/pgn" at the end (replace the quotation marks with brackets - next to P) and it puts all the games into a playable mode, thus:
I positively love this feature
How does one enter variations and text within the PGN?
You can put "pgn" at the beginning and "/pgn" at the end (replace the quotation marks with brackets - next to P) and it puts all the games into a playable mode, thus:
Steve Collyer wrote:Ok thanks Mick.
It might be interesting to compare Ivanov's engine match rates for the games played in the year prior to the recent tourney with those played in Croatia.
Edit:
From the link in your post above, I'm analysing these games which were played prior to Zadar 19th.
I wanted a medium sized batch, so I chose the first 13 games as shown below. These should all have 20 or more non-database moves. A couple of games were excluded because they're too short.
Hopefully the non-database sample size should be similar to the 9 games from Zadar 19th for comparison purposes.
I could maybe find all those moves as white as they seem, for the most part, pretty straight forward, but 16. Qd2 and 19. Qe2 strike me as a little weird, certainly for my style of play.
White threw everything and the kitchen sink in this game! That looked very much like emotionless perfect defence.
From move 31 onwards for Black do not look like human moves (not mine at any rate, but perhaps thats why i can lose a drawn game!). A human would surely have some kind of plan, even if flawed.
Moves 18-19 appear to be a computer-like exchange. By move 30 I am pleased with Black's play and position and would rather have that colour.
29. a5 trapping the Rook. How to extricate it?...
40.. h5 is this a mistake? I would play hxg5 and bring the King over. Black has many more waiting moves available no?
Capablanca-esque!
Wouldn't most players just agree the draw at 50. Nf3+ rather than play on?
30. Rxa4! Astute tactical play. Would most strong players find this combination? I'm a lowly 150ECF and I probably would not have been able to find that... sadlyMaybe I'm overrated
24.. Nxe4! Wow, there's no way I could find that.
31. Qd8+ is an interesting choice. Even though this is from the opponent not under scrutiny. Playing for the perpetual when Qxe6+ wins the knight... Maybe time was a factor.
I positively love this feature
How does one enter variations and text within the PGN?
Hatch End A Captain (Hillingdon League)
Controller (Hillingdon League)
Controller (Hillingdon League)
-
AustinElliott
- Posts: 665
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:01 pm
- Location: North of England
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
In the context of the discussion about "Engine-y" looking play/moves, and the discussion between Roger deC and Steve Collyer, I found this old ChessBase article by Frederic Friedel from over a decade ago very enlightening. It also has a lot of echoes of the more recent case.
Mainly I found it persuasive because it discusses a couple of games that exemplify the differences between 'what humans play and why' and 'what engines play'.
Mainly I found it persuasive because it discusses a couple of games that exemplify the differences between 'what humans play and why' and 'what engines play'.
-
Roger de Coverly
- Posts: 21314
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
I reread that one as well. If a plausible method of cheating can be demonstrated, analysis of the game can support the hypothesis. If no possible cheating can be detected, it's wrong to accuse players for playing good moves whilst not a GM or being able to emulate the evaluation process of a chess engine.AustinElliott wrote:
Mainly I found it persuasive because it discusses a couple of games that exemplify the differences between 'what humans play and why' and 'what engines play'.
A more traditional means of cheating is players agreeing to take a dive, in other words to play badly in exchange for money or other inducements. The countries making up the former Yugoslavia have some past history on that one.
-
IM Jack Rudd
- Posts: 4826
- Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:13 am
- Location: Bideford
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
The mathematics of this one is interesting, and supports Roger's point. The conclusion you get to with it is that an important datum for figuring out whether a high moves-to-engine-moves correlation implies cheating is your a priori estimation of the probability that cheating was taking place.Roger de Coverly wrote:If a plausible method of cheating can be demonstrated, analysis of the game can support the hypothesis. If no possible cheating can be detected, it's wrong to accuse players for playing good moves whilst not a GM or being able to emulate the evaluation process of a chess engine.
-
Matt Fletcher
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:42 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Isn't that the point Ken Regan makes about treating one in 1000 cases differently to 1 in a million? That if there is a 1 in 1000 chance that a player will play at a certain level, then if you look across enough games you will find such a performance somewhere - and given no prior knowledge or physical evidence of cheating, this doesn't give you any additional steer as to whether a particular player is cheating.IM Jack Rudd wrote:The mathematics of this one is interesting, and supports Roger's point. The conclusion you get to with it is that an important datum for figuring out whether a high moves-to-engine-moves correlation implies cheating is your a priori estimation of the probability that cheating was taking place.
But a one in a million (or more) chance is different because it is so much less likely to happen by chance across even a large set of players. Of course it's not an absolute guarantee of bad behaviour but it could reasonably arouse suspicion, even without physical evidence.
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Matthew Turner
- Posts: 3604
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 11:54 am
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
Steve has explained the percentages of first/second/third choice engine moves that a super GM would expect. Are there similar (accepted) expectations for a 2200 player, or an 1800 player? Do the expectations change dramatically with strength (rating)?
-
Roger de Coverly
- Posts: 21314
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
There's also a finite chance that the previously published rating is totally wrong. It has to be a probability much higher than 1 in a million that a CM standard player aged under 30 could improve by playing on line or against engines and self training without testing his new skills in rated tournaments. It would be unsurprising for a strong IM to finish equal first in a European Open, so improving to a super GM level isn't necessary. If we treat the match up rate as no more than a quality indicator, his ageing GM opponents didn't play particularly well.Matt Fletcher wrote: Isn't that the point Ken Regan makes about treating one in 1000 cases differently to 1 in a million? That if there is a 1 in 1000 chance that a player will play at a certain level, then if you look across enough games you will find such a performance somewhere
-
Roger de Coverly
- Posts: 21314
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
I'm wondering if this has ever been attempted. It would act as a quality indicator really and I would think being in the third or fourth choice result would be the one to concentrate on, provided forced or near forced moves are screened.Matthew Turner wrote: Are there similar (accepted) expectations for a 2200 player, or an 1800 player? Do the expectations change dramatically with strength (rating)?
You wouldn't want to worry much whether moves were "book" or "out of book" for that matter, since opening knowledge is much less precise as you lower the skill horizon. At GM level or higher, if a previous game is being followed, it can be because it is known to one or both of the players. At 1800 level, the players are most likely to be solving the position from general understanding and tactical calculation.
-
Steve Collyer
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:07 am
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
The analyses for both batches is finished now.
Pre-Zadar 19th:
Houdini 1.5a x64 Hash:256 Time:30s Max Depth:20ply
{ Ivanov, Borislav (Games: 13) }
{ Top 1 Match: 203/414 ( 49.0% ) Opponents: 217/416 ( 52.2% )
{ Top 2 Match: 287/414 ( 69.3% ) Opponents: 296/416 ( 71.2% )
{ Top 3 Match: 330/414 ( 79.7% ) Opponents: 323/416 ( 77.6% )
{ Top 4 Match: 352/414 ( 85.0% ) Opponents: 343/416 ( 82.5% )
Zadar 19th:
Houdini 1.5a x64 Hash:256 Time:30s Max Depth:20ply
{ Borislav Ivanov (Games: 9) }
{ Top 1 Match: 210/314 ( 66.9% ) Opponents: 150/313 ( 47.9% )
{ Top 2 Match: 270/314 ( 86.0% ) Opponents: 207/313 ( 66.1% )
{ Top 3 Match: 285/314 ( 90.8% ) Opponents: 238/313 ( 76.0% )
{ Top 4 Match: 293/314 ( 93.3% ) Opponents: 267/313 ( 85.3% )
But that isn't the full story.
According to the chessbase article, the live feed was interrupted during round 8 which was the game Ivanov lost against GM Predojevic, so it would be interesting (and some would say fair) to remove that game from the results.
Doing so yields the following match rate:
Zadar 19th:
Houdini 1.5a x64 Hash:256 Time:30s Max Depth:20ply
{ Borislav Ivanov (Games: ) }
{ Top 1 Match: 197/287 ( 68.6% ) Opponents: 135/286 ( 47.2% )
{ Top 2 Match: 252/287 ( 87.8% ) Opponents: 188/286 ( 65.7% )
{ Top 3 Match: 265/287 ( 92.3% ) Opponents: 218/286 ( 76.2% )
{ Top 4 Match: 272/287 ( 94.8% ) Opponents: 242/286 ( 84.6% )
Pre-Zadar 19th:
Houdini 1.5a x64 Hash:256 Time:30s Max Depth:20ply
{ Ivanov, Borislav (Games: 13) }
{ Top 1 Match: 203/414 ( 49.0% ) Opponents: 217/416 ( 52.2% )
{ Top 2 Match: 287/414 ( 69.3% ) Opponents: 296/416 ( 71.2% )
{ Top 3 Match: 330/414 ( 79.7% ) Opponents: 323/416 ( 77.6% )
{ Top 4 Match: 352/414 ( 85.0% ) Opponents: 343/416 ( 82.5% )
Zadar 19th:
Houdini 1.5a x64 Hash:256 Time:30s Max Depth:20ply
{ Borislav Ivanov (Games: 9) }
{ Top 1 Match: 210/314 ( 66.9% ) Opponents: 150/313 ( 47.9% )
{ Top 2 Match: 270/314 ( 86.0% ) Opponents: 207/313 ( 66.1% )
{ Top 3 Match: 285/314 ( 90.8% ) Opponents: 238/313 ( 76.0% )
{ Top 4 Match: 293/314 ( 93.3% ) Opponents: 267/313 ( 85.3% )
But that isn't the full story.
According to the chessbase article, the live feed was interrupted during round 8 which was the game Ivanov lost against GM Predojevic, so it would be interesting (and some would say fair) to remove that game from the results.
Doing so yields the following match rate:
Zadar 19th:
Houdini 1.5a x64 Hash:256 Time:30s Max Depth:20ply
{ Borislav Ivanov (Games: ) }
{ Top 1 Match: 197/287 ( 68.6% ) Opponents: 135/286 ( 47.2% )
{ Top 2 Match: 252/287 ( 87.8% ) Opponents: 188/286 ( 65.7% )
{ Top 3 Match: 265/287 ( 92.3% ) Opponents: 218/286 ( 76.2% )
{ Top 4 Match: 272/287 ( 94.8% ) Opponents: 242/286 ( 84.6% )
-
Roger de Coverly
- Posts: 21314
- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:51 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
It depends how you think the hypothetical cheating method worked. If you postulate that it involved the live feed in some way or other, then yes. If it was a concealed device on his person where he was inputting the moves himself, then it's not going to make a difference.Steve Collyer wrote: so it would be interesting (and some would say fair) to remove that game from the results.
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Brian Valentine
- Posts: 577
- Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:30 pm
Re: Chess Player Strip Searched
If I've done my sums correctly, the chance of getting 293/314 or better given probability of .85 of being "correct" is about 1/50,000. I haven't added up the number of FIDE events a year but I guess we should expect to see something like this to occur once every 5-10 years without "assistance".