Southend

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Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Southend

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:16 am

Alex Holowczak wrote: He's alive and well, but is maintaining a diplomatic silence in case this lands in his inbox in his official capacity.
Fair enough Alex. I shall abort plans to raise a ransom for your release.

I wasn't so much expecting you to comment on this case specifically as much as what 10.2 is and what it means.

Always useful to have somebody around who can say what the law actually is. In my experience a lot of chessers tend to interpret it as, "If for any reason I want a draw then I can have one."

Paul Dargan
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Re: Southend

Post by Paul Dargan » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:22 am

I've wondered whether it might be worth publishing some of these 10.2 decisions to give both players and arbiters practical examples ... I understand the need to include strength of players, moves, etc...

It's common paractice to publish the cases that reach appeals committees at high-level UK competitions - in fact the situations are given to a panel of expert Tournament Director's who express their opinion and comment on the decision reached. Might be interesting to do for 10.2's?

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Southend

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:29 am

Jonathan Bryant wrote:I wasn't so much expecting you to comment on this case specifically as much as what 10.2 is and what it means.
Well, here's the Law:

10.2 If the player, having the move, has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall summon the arbiter and may stop the clocks. (See Article 6.12.b)

a. If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim.

b. If the arbiter postpones his decision, the opponent may be awarded two extra minutes and the game shall continue, if possible in the presence of an arbiter. The arbiter shall declare the final result later in the game or as soon as possible after a flag has fallen. He shall declare the game drawn if he agrees that the final position cannot be won by normal means, or that the opponent was not making sufficient attempts to win by normal means.

c. If the arbiter has rejected the claim, the opponent shall be awarded two extra minutes time.

d. The decision of the arbiter shall be final relating to (a), (b) and (c).

I may comment more later, but I'm just off out...

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Southend

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:31 am

Paul Dargan wrote:I've wondered whether it might be worth publishing some of these 10.2 decisions to give both players and arbiters practical examples ... I understand the need to include strength of players, moves, etc...
The implicit 10.2s could be recorded as well. This is where a player with a time advantage accepts that it's only possible to win on time and therefore concedes a draw without recourse to the arbiter or the "no arbiter present" procedure. This applies both to positions that are straightforward draws and those where the offerer of a draw has an overwhelming advantage but no time to convert. The sort of positions where the result would be instantly agreed if playing with an increment.

Angus French
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Re: Southend

Post by Angus French » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:32 am

David Welch wrote detailed guidance on 10.2 and it was published on the ECF website but lost when the site was redesigned.

My understanding is that the onus is on the claimant to demonstrate the draw/lack of progress during play.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Southend

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:38 am

Angus French wrote:David Welch wrote detailed guidance on 10.2 and it was published on the ECF website but lost when the site was redesigned.
I thought some of that guide was misleading. The award of a draw in Rook plus King v King being a case in point. It cannot be right that a higher standard of play be demanded when an arbiter is watching than without. More to the point would be practical guidance as to whether or not the arbiter should establish from the scoresheets the potential for a fifty move claim and whether for that matter, players are entitled to ask for this to be monitored.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Southend

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:56 am

Alex Holowczak wrote: a. If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn.
I wish they would reword this the other way round. This would remove the implication that you can win by trying to make progress in a position not possible to win by normal means.

James Courtenay
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Re: Southend

Post by James Courtenay » Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:48 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: He's alive and well, but is maintaining a diplomatic silence in case this lands in his inbox in his official capacity. It would be wrong of me to comment on this without knowing all of the facts first, and without reference to the Chief Arbiter.
Is this possible, given 10.2(d)?

I suppose the ECF could strike off an arbiter if they didn't like their decision - given that there is a huge surplus of them floating around.....
James.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Southend

Post by Alex Holowczak » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:06 pm

James Courtenay wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote: He's alive and well, but is maintaining a diplomatic silence in case this lands in his inbox in his official capacity. It would be wrong of me to comment on this without knowing all of the facts first, and without reference to the Chief Arbiter.
Is this possible, given 10.2(d)?
You're right that I can't change the result of the game.

I may, however, have to make a statement (either in public or private) about the rights and wrongs of what happened, if necessary.
James Courtenay wrote:I suppose the ECF could strike off an arbiter if they didn't like their decision - given that there is a huge surplus of them floating around.....
The Director of Home Chess does indeed have the power to "strike off an arbiter", as you put it, but that's rather dependent on the arbiters in question actually being ECF Arbiters in the first place.

Alan Walton
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Re: Southend

Post by Alan Walton » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:35 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:The Director of Home Chess does indeed have the power to "strike off an arbiter", as you put it, but that's rather dependent on the arbiters in question actually being ECF Arbiters in the first place.
As this congress is FIDE rated, do all arbiters involved with decision making (i.e. compiling pairings, 10.2 decisions) have to be FIDE registered

I most probably wrong but I would assume you have to be a FIDE arbiter

Sean Hewitt
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Re: Southend

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:34 pm

Alan Walton wrote:As this congress is FIDE rated, do all arbiters involved with decision making (i.e. compiling pairings, 10.2 decisions) have to be FIDE registered

I most probably wrong but I would assume you have to be a FIDE arbiter
As the event was FIDE rated, all of the arbiters must be licensed by FIDE having paid the appropriate licence fee. However, this does not mean that they need to be International Arbiters, FIDE Arbiters or even ECF Arbiters.

Details of who the registered arbiters were are here

Details of English International Arbiters

Details of English FIDE Arbiters

Details of ECF Arbiters

Richard Bates
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Re: Southend

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:18 pm

I'm afraid that messy disputes are almost inevitable when large amounts of money (and this was uncommonly large for a tournament of this type) and professionals are involved in what amount to basically standard amateur tournaments (not meant in a derogatory sense). It is also unfortunate because it probably makes it less likely that such experiments are repeated. To be honest i'm surprised that it took until the last few minutes of the tournament for things to finally boil over, although tensions had been fairly obviously bubbling under the surface from quite an early stage. I wouldn't envy any arbiter finding themselves in the sort of situation Ian Hunnable found himself in on Monday (although i have only heard second-third hand reports). As an amateur i would argue that a draw was a fair result, whether it was the "correct" result is for others to debate.

Neill Cooper
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Re: Southend

Post by Neill Cooper » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:17 pm

Angus French wrote:David Welch wrote detailed guidance on 10.2 and it was published on the ECF website but lost when the site was redesigned.

My understanding is that the onus is on the claimant to demonstrate the draw/lack of progress during play.
Here is the guidance courtesy of the Wayback Machine which has many past websites archived (http://web.archive.org/web/200710072155 ... _nov06.htm)

Guidance on the Quickplay Finish
Last update: Thursday March 22, 2007 14:29

David Welch, Chief Arbiter of the ECF

The game of chess is always evolving and the quickplay finish has risen in importance as adjudications and adjournments have slipped out of favour. Even the quickplay finish could be eventually replaced by events with a single time control (e.g. all moves in 2 hours) or by a Fischer-style time control.

Each system of timing brings its own problems and difficulties, and each system affects the style of play. The quickplay finish has itself changed over the years. Originally different congresses had different rules, then the BCF brought out a unified set of rules. Eventually FIDE incorporated the QPF in to the main Laws of Chess. Even the FIDE Laws have changed since they were introduced.

As the rules and Laws have changed, so has the guidance to Arbiters and players. I have been asked to state the ECF’s present position.

It is obvious that when a claim under Article 10.2 is made, there is the same problem that occurs when a game is adjudicated: the two players are expecting to receive 1½ points out of a position that is only worth a total of one point.

I would ask the reader to read the Laws of Chess (Article 10 and Appendices B and D.) This information is available on the ECF website, as are my notes on the Changes to the Laws of Chess, effective 1 July 2005.

Article 10.1 A ‘quickplay finish’ is the phase of a game, when all the (remaining) moves must be made in a limited time.

Note that the placing in brackets of the word ‘remaining’ indicates that there is no need for a previous time control.

Article 10.1 makes it the duty of the player to allow sufficient time to finish the game, just as a conventional time control makes it the duty of the player to allow sufficient time (for example) to complete the first 40 moves.

There are two differences, however. Firstly, it is in the interest of a player who is getting short of time to try to avoid the longer endings e.g. if he allows himself to end up with K + Q against K + Q + P, then he must expect to make a very long sequence of moves. Secondly, the opponent may try to extend the game unnaturally by avoiding any progress towards the end of the game or by considering it reasonable to play on in a position where there is practically no chance of a win over the board.

Article 10.2 affords the player some protection if his opponent employs either of these tactics.

Article 10.2 If the player, having the move, has less than two minutes left on his clock, he may claim a draw before his flag falls. He shall stop the clocks and summon the arbiter.

The first sentence is unfortunate, as witness the following conversation:
Young player to arbiter: ‘I am claiming a draw because I have less than two minutes on my clock.’ Arbiter: ‘Why are you making a claim?’ Young player: ‘Because I was coached always to claim when I had less than two minutes unless I thought I could win.’

The next part of 10.2 implies that the player must say why he made a claim, because the arbiter is invited to agree with the player.

Article 10.2 (a) If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone the decision or reject the claim.

‘...making no effort…’ is the rarer claim and presents the greatest immediate problem for the arbiter. It would be unwise to interrupt the game at this point to investigate the claim. However, when he asks the players to resume, there is a good chance that the opponent will sacrifice a piece to try to achieve a breakthrough, something which he might have tried many moves before. On balance, it is probably better to ask for play to continue and to base the final decision on the events which then unfold. It would be a brave arbiter (but possibly an astute one) who would observe flag fall and then investigate the part of the game leading up to the initial claim.
There was one case of ‘…making no effort…’ when black with lone K on e5 claimed a draw against a K on f2 and a rook on a4. Play continued 1. Rb4 Kd5 2. Ra4 Ke5 3. Rb4 and black’s flag fell. The arbiter correctly awarded a draw. Note that the artificial prolonging of the game is the key point of the decision.

The claim ‘…making no effort…’ is actually easier to demonstrate when there is no arbiter present. The game MUST stop at that point and the evidence be gathered.

It is always rare for an arbiter to reject a claim out of hand, unless he suspects delaying tactics. Therefore the arbiter will ask the players to play on, to gain as much evidence as possible. I would only adjust the clock of the opponent by 2 minutes if there was good reason, particularly with electronic clocks, but I think this is down to whether the arbiter thinks he will do more harm than good.

Let us now concentrate on the claim ‘…not possible to win by normal means…’ It is normal for a player to make a blunder if he has not demonstrated a total grasp of the position. It is not normal simply to make a player run out of time in a position where it is practically impossible to win over the board. It is not normal to expect the player to under-promote to a bishop so that the opponent can set up a help-mate.

If a player has shown that he has the technique to draw a position such as White K(e4) versus K (e6) + P (e5), the arbiter would not require that all the moves up to the eventual stalemate be played and would award the draw. In K + R versus K + R, the award of a draw would be immediate, except for beginners, when it might be wise to observe a few moves first.

Under Appendix D, it is harder for the claimant to have his claim upheld, because the appeal arbiter is deprived of the information that the ‘over-the-board’ arbiter can gain by saying ‘Play on.’

A serious problem arises when the player has a good position, but is short of time. In some junior events, the opponent with Q + 3P versus the claimant with Q + 7P is asked if he would be prepared to play for a win if the clock were removed. Objectively, the arbiter cannot award the claimant a draw if there is any reasonable chance that the opponent would win. The claimant had perhaps behaved unwisely by not allowing himself sufficient time to exchange pieces in to a position where he could not lose.

Rules of Thumb for the Arbiter

1) Always gain maximum information, usually by asking the players to play on.
2) If the opponent has prolonged the game, or could only reasonably expect to win on time alone, the draw should be awarded.
3) If the player who makes the claim has himself contributed to his own time trouble, or has been forced to spend time countering his opponent’s good moves, he weakens his claim for a draw.
4) Any benefit of the doubt is given to the opponent of the claimant.
5) Don’t make a decision which brings the game in to disrepute.
6) If you are out of your depth, ask for advice before making a decision, because there is no appeal.


Suggestions for the Players

1) Leave yourself enough time to finish the game under normal circumstances.
2) If the opponent of the claimant blunders and is no longer seeking to win, he should offer a draw in the presence of the arbiter. If the original claimant refuses, the claimant will no longer be protected by the arbiter.
3) If you play for a win, you risk losing unless your opponent could not possibly checkmate you.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Southend

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:26 am

Neill Cooper (David Welch) wrote:
There was one case of ‘…making no effort…’ when black with lone K on e5 claimed a draw against a K on f2 and a rook on a4. Play continued 1. Rb4 Kd5 2. Ra4 Ke5 3. Rb4 and black’s flag fell. The arbiter correctly awarded a draw. Note that the artificial prolonging of the game is the key point of the decision.
Personally I think that interpretation is misleading. It is less than obvious why the presence of an arbiter should require a higher standard of play than the absence of one or compared to a game played with increments. It's completely valid for the watching arbiter to spot a repetition or invoke a 50 move cutoff, but awarding a draw because of a couple of inexact moves ?

If FIDE ever get round to publishing them, the next set of the Laws of Chess will have an additional provision that the arbiter will be allowed to substitute a clock with a delay or increment in the event of an "unable" claim. I'm not quite sure where this leaves GM + R + N v GM + R +P, but presumably increases the likelihood of a draw.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Southend

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:10 am

Having read Gawain's account, his score sheet has the opponent offering three draws, some moves apart, but he could have been penalised for that. It also appears that all the 10.2 claims were invalid as they were not made before the claimant's move...

So by then the opponent could even have been defaulted for repeated bad behaviour (assuming he had been getting escalating warnings and penalties). I'm a fan of arbiters looking at the games from time to time, rather than hiding behind the control table, but I do accept the arbiter can't look at every scoresheet to see if people have been making repeated draw offers!