Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begins
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
Well, the difference is greater than 36, so the extra countries didn't matter in the end, if you assumed that they all voted for Kirsan.
Controversial I guess, but one country one vote doesn't really work. America's vote with regards to representing their larger number of chess players surely outweigh the smaller numbers in countries like Togo.
Will anything ever change? Have to wait quite a few years before we have a new one. Surely it doesn't have to be a strong Grandmaster chess player?
Having said that, I wonder who on earth would want to challenge Kirsan for the next election? I know it has been two candidates quite a lot in the past, but surely there could be a case for more choices/candidates. I'd prefer it if it was not always Kirsan vs A N Other.
Controversial I guess, but one country one vote doesn't really work. America's vote with regards to representing their larger number of chess players surely outweigh the smaller numbers in countries like Togo.
Will anything ever change? Have to wait quite a few years before we have a new one. Surely it doesn't have to be a strong Grandmaster chess player?
Having said that, I wonder who on earth would want to challenge Kirsan for the next election? I know it has been two candidates quite a lot in the past, but surely there could be a case for more choices/candidates. I'd prefer it if it was not always Kirsan vs A N Other.
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
I'm not sure anyone would, given they would have run a gauntlet of dubious practices, bribery and hate websites. Given that FIDE , or the President at least has become in part an instrument of Russian foreign policy, perhaps the best hope that he isn't President for Life is that Putin dismisses him. Federations with a majority of the world's players could potentially set up a rival international body, but that wouldn't have credibility unless Russia, India and China were on board.Lewis Martin wrote: Having said that, I wonder who on earth would want to challenge Kirsan for the next election?
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
The Ugandan delegate, previously missing, turned up just as the voting was concluding. He also held the proxy for - wait for it - Gabon.Mick Norris wrote:Reports earlier were 174 votes available in total, so presumably 3 abstentions/disputed/not accepted
After some debate he was allowed to vote and he cast the Ugandan vote. He declined to exercise the Gabonese proxy, arguably a quite principled action.
Hence the final total was 175. 4 votes were rejected as spoiled by the scrutineers, so 110 to 61 with 4 invalid.
In 2010 3 votes were rejected, so 95 to 55 with 3 invalid.
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
OK we all know the standard protocol by now. KI offers a VP position to the loser which I believe he did and the loser suddenly is inspired to work for FIDE. Let's see if GK accepts the inevitable which we all knew was going to happen a year ago.
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
A familiar refrain at times like this - but many other sporting federations (not least football) are run on an OMOV basis and seem to manage. The problem here is the way Kirsan has cynically used the smaller countries as a vote bank to give legitimacy to his dubious "projects".Lewis Martin wrote:Well, the difference is greater than 36, so the extra countries didn't matter in the end, if you assumed that they all voted for Kirsan.
Controversial I guess, but one country one vote doesn't really work. America's vote with regards to representing their larger number of chess players surely outweigh the smaller numbers in countries like Togo
Still, even some of his cheerleaders admitted that Gazza was a deeply flawed "alternative". We could just have swapped one set of problems for another
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
DavidDavid Sedgwick wrote:The Ugandan delegate, previously missing, turned up just as the voting was concluding. He also held the proxy for - wait for it - Gabon.Mick Norris wrote:Reports earlier were 174 votes available in total, so presumably 3 abstentions/disputed/not accepted
After some debate he was allowed to vote and he cast the Ugandan vote. He declined to exercise the Gabonese proxy, arguably a quite principled action.
Hence the final total was 175. 4 votes were rejected as spoiled by the scrutineers, so 110 to 61 with 4 invalid.
In 2010 3 votes were rejected, so 95 to 55 with 3 invalid.
Thanks for that, nice to see Gabon making a sort of appearance
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
Karpov declined, did he not? Leong and Sand were bought off in 2002 without even going through the motions of an election. It took them eleven years to rejoin the opposition.Chris Rice wrote: KI offers a VP position to the loser which I believe he did and the loser suddenly is inspired to work for FIDE.
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
OK, but maybe it is a good idea to try and change FIDE from the inside? The last 3 elections have shown how not to beat KirsanChris Rice wrote:OK we all know the standard protocol by now. KI offers a VP position to the loser which I believe he did and the loser suddenly is inspired to work for FIDE. Let's see if GK accepts the inevitable which we all knew was going to happen a year ago.
You may well disagree with much of what Andrew Paulson says, but at least worth listening to his view about how to get Kirsan to go
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
We did at least get elections, which is more than Leong and Sand achieved in 2002. It makes it clear to Kirsan that not everyone loves him.Mick Norris wrote: OK, but maybe it is a good idea to try and change FIDE from the inside? The last 3 elections have shown how not to beat Kirsan
He was interviewed today by Danny King, still defending zero default times.
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
Matt Mackenzie wrote:... many other sporting federations (not least football) are run on an OMOV basis and seem to manage....
A measure of just how jiggered FIDE is: it is possible to propose FIFA as an improvement.
The Abysmal Depths of Chess: https://theabysmaldepthsofchess.blogspot.com
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
Jonathan Bryant wrote:Matt Mackenzie wrote:... many other sporting federations (not least football) are run on an OMOV basis and seem to manage....
A measure of just how jiggered FIDE is: it is possible to propose FIFA as an improvement.
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
Well yes, don't think that I am unaware of that ironyJonathan Bryant wrote:Matt Mackenzie wrote:... many other sporting federations (not least football) are run on an OMOV basis and seem to manage....
A measure of just how jiggered FIDE is: it is possible to propose FIFA as an improvement.
My real point, though, is that blaming OMOV is barking up the wrong tree.
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
Indeed, the question for the federations that think FIDE has the wrong system, is how good is their own system?Matt Mackenzie wrote:My real point, though, is that blaming OMOV is barking up the wrong tree.
In the case of the ECF, time would better be spent sorting our own system out i.e. reforming Council, changing the voting power to reflect a Membership system rather than Game Fee leaving influence in the hands of organisations
If you do insist on trying to change FIDE, then you need to speak to those like Rupert Jones and Nick Faulkes who have some idea of how it works, even if you don't like their views
The ECF backed Kasparov and Danailov, and they both lost - maybe we should threaten to back Kirsan and Azmai next time
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Re: Kasparov vs Ilyumzhinov: the FIDE Presidency battle begi
Chess.com with an excellent report of the farce that went on yesterday.
http://www.chess.com/news/breaking-ilyu ... tions-4528
Clearly the electoral system is vulnerable to manipulation and so whether or not the election was free and fair, which is unlikely, its always going to be perceived that it was corrupt. But very much like the British electoral system if you are the dominant parties in a first past the post system as Labour and the Conservatives have been then what would be your motivation of going to a different electoral system where you would be at a disadvantage? That's what Illyumzhinov would argue I guess.
Even if you did get some buy-in for electoral change the incumbent would always get a major say in which alternative electoral system was used and Illyumzhinov would naturally choose one that benefited him the most while proclaiming that he's doing his bit on reforming FIDE.
Illyumzhinov may not be there much longer, but even if that's true, what's to stop him putting one of his cronies in place with the same tried and trusted electoral campaign model?
Tbh I can't see any light at the end of this particular tunnel.
http://www.chess.com/news/breaking-ilyu ... tions-4528
Clearly the electoral system is vulnerable to manipulation and so whether or not the election was free and fair, which is unlikely, its always going to be perceived that it was corrupt. But very much like the British electoral system if you are the dominant parties in a first past the post system as Labour and the Conservatives have been then what would be your motivation of going to a different electoral system where you would be at a disadvantage? That's what Illyumzhinov would argue I guess.
Even if you did get some buy-in for electoral change the incumbent would always get a major say in which alternative electoral system was used and Illyumzhinov would naturally choose one that benefited him the most while proclaiming that he's doing his bit on reforming FIDE.
Illyumzhinov may not be there much longer, but even if that's true, what's to stop him putting one of his cronies in place with the same tried and trusted electoral campaign model?
Tbh I can't see any light at the end of this particular tunnel.