Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

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Barry Sandercock
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Barry Sandercock » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:23 pm

Maybe not ! (move 38 )

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:32 pm

What on Earth is Kramnik's king (he is Black) doing down on h2?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:30 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:What on Earth is Kramnik's king (he is Black) doing down on h2?
Shortly after the the opening, Bishops were exchanged on f3, leaving the h2 pawn isolated. When the White King headed towards the centre, the Black King marched in and took the h2 pawn. It now seems the pawns are attempting to join the King. Earlier it just looked as if Black would have to be content with a draw, although to be fair, Kramnik's method of playing the QGD may have some points worthy of study.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Barry Sandercock » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:04 pm

Surely Giri should be able to draw this (move 76)

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Barry Sandercock » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:50 pm

My mistake. He lost it.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:18 am

Bah. Live Feed seems to have gone belly up at a rather critical juncture.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Barry Sandercock » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:50 am

ChessBomb website still working ok.

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:54 am

Oh dear. Is this some rule or something? When a strong GM wins six games in a row, unless they are called Caruana, they promptly lose the next game? First Giri, and now it looks like Kramnik as well. Will be a massive win for Yu Yangyi (still only 20) if he wins this game.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Barry Sandercock » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:00 pm

Yes. Kramnik is in big trouble (move 28)

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:26 pm

Barry Sandercock wrote:Yes. Kramnik is in big trouble (move 28)
The chessbomb engine is scoring Giri as a little better (move 29) with accurate play. There again he has a material advantage of two pawns and an exchange, so a verdict of "unclear" might be indicated. At move 33, it thinks best play is for White to force a repetition.

The sequence 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. Bxc6 bxc6 in the Kramnik game seems to have worked as an anti-Berlin. It's a reversed Vienna as well 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Bb4 4. Bc4 Bxc3

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Matt Mackenzie » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:40 pm

Kramnik may be a bit aggreived he didn't get White today - would he not have done under the pairing rules of some tournaments, as the higher rated player?
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:55 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Kramnik may be a bit aggreived he didn't get White today - would he not have done under the pairing rules of some tournaments, as the higher rated player?
His higher rating wouldn't actually have come into it - his higher score would have outranked that criterion. But under current ECF pairing rules, he would have had white, yes. (Both had had 4 whites and 4 blacks; both had had black in round 8 and white in round 7 - ECF doesn't check back further and gives the higher-ranked player his due colour.)

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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:51 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote: His higher rating wouldn't actually have come into it - his higher score would have outranked that criterion. But under current ECF pairing rules, he would have had white, yes.
They well be using what FIDE terms the "Dutch" system.

From the FIDE Handbook
http://www.fide.com/fide/handbook.html? ... ew=article

These rules state for colour allocation

Colour Allocation rules
For each pairing apply (with descending priority):
E.1 Grant both colour preference
E.2 Grant the stronger colour preference
E.3 Alternate the colours to the most recent round in which they played with different colours
E.4 Grant the colour preference of the higher ranked player
E.5 In the first round all even numbered players in S1 will receive a colour different from all odd numbered players in S1
Both Yu and Kramnik had White in round 7 and Black in Round 8. The previous round where they had opposite colours had been round 6, so it looks as if rule E.3 was applied, ahead of rule E.4 .

I would assume a pairing program was used rather than pairing cards.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:09 pm

Indeed. The colours are correct under the Dutch system (and, incidentally, the former ECF system). But there are pairing systems in which the colours would have been the other way round.

Which of these systems is best? Well, that's a non-trivial question to answer; you'd need to establish a metric by which you're evaluating pairing systems first.

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Re: Qatar Masters Open - strongest open ever held

Post by Stewart Reuben » Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:41 am

Jack Rudd >Which of these systems is best?<
You would need to open a new thread, or reactivate an old one in order to discuss that.
First you must define your objectives.
The advantages of the current ECF system over the Dutch one are minimal. That has to be weighed against the advantage that many people all over the world are more familiar with the Dutch system. A computerised system is better than a card system except the latter is more fun for the pairings controller.
Of course it is well-known that I regard all seeded top half v second half Swiss Systems as inherently flawed.