Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

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Chris Rice
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Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:15 am

Right after Wijk aan Zee we have the best open in the world at Gibraltar. The tournament web site alone shows you the professionalism of this tournament even paying attention to the smallest details in travel, visas and temperature. Thinking of giving it a go? Forget it, they've already stopped taking entries. 247 players in the Masters alone, 68 of them 2500+ http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/e ... 1.htm#1-70 The organisation led by Stuart Conquest is utterly superb. My intention isn't to start a war but you wonder what they are doing that Hastings are not? Does Hastings need their local boy Stuart to return and put the tournament back on the map?
Anyway this tournament headed by Nakamura, Topalov and Svidler should be well worth looking forward to.

Richard Bates
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Richard Bates » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:32 am

Chris Rice wrote:... My intention isn't to start a war but you wonder what they are doing that Hastings are not? Does Hastings need their local boy Stuart to return and put the tournament back on the map?
It's simply impossible to comprehend what Gibraltar in February + £'000,000s budget might have over Hastings in the New Year +£'00,000s budget...

Chris Rice
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:58 am

Richard Bates wrote:
Chris Rice wrote:... My intention isn't to start a war but you wonder what they are doing that Hastings are not? Does Hastings need their local boy Stuart to return and put the tournament back on the map?
It's simply impossible to comprehend what Gibraltar in February + £'000,000s budget might have over Hastings in the New Year +£'00,000s budget...
Agreed so it begs the question as to what the Gibraltar organisers do to attract this money that the Hastings organisers don't? However, it may be that the Hastings organisers do try and get sponsorship but are unsuccessful. What might be the reasons for that and are they surmountable?

Mike Truran
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Mike Truran » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:36 am

Where to start?

How about:

1. Sponsorship from business, who believe in the value of chess as a good vehicle for promoting their brands.
2. Support from the government, who see the value of chess both in promoting the reputation of the territory and in bringing in two weeks' worth of tourists in significant numbers at a fallow time of year.
3. A good quality venue.
4. Good quality accommodation, both in the Caleta and elsewhere in Gibraltar.
5. Decent restaurants.
6. Good weather.
7. Lots to see.

I know less about Hastings than I do about Gibraltar. Perhaps someone with more knowledge that I have could compare and contrast.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:47 am

Chris Rice wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:
Chris Rice wrote:... My intention isn't to start a war but you wonder what they are doing that Hastings are not? Does Hastings need their local boy Stuart to return and put the tournament back on the map?
It's simply impossible to comprehend what Gibraltar in February + £'000,000s budget might have over Hastings in the New Year +£'00,000s budget...
Agreed so it begs the question as to what the Gibraltar organisers do to attract this money that the Hastings organisers don't?
Location has a lot to do with it. The Government of Gibraltar actively encourages local businesses to support the Chess Festival as a prestigious national event. Hastings Borough Council doesn't have the same clout.

Chris Rice wrote:However, it may be that the Hastings organisers do try and get sponsorship but are unsuccessful. What might be the reasons for that and are they surmountable?
Do they try? - yes.

Why have they not succeeded? - please see above. Moreover, the economic climate has for quite some time not been conducive to attracting sponsorship from the financial institutions that were the mainstay of chess sponsorship in the 1980s.

Are they surmountable? - I hope so; I fear not.

As someone involved on the periphery of the organisation for both events, I find the contrast all too apparent. The Tradewise Gibraltar organisers, although far from profligate, know that they have the resources necessary to put on a successful event. The Hastings organisers spend year after year trying to extract a quart from a pot which may have originally held a pint but which is slowly but steadily diminishing further in size. Frankly, it's pretty demoralising.
Last edited by David Sedgwick on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Stewart Reuben » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:57 pm

Brian Callaghan fairly recently received the OBE for services to tourism and chess. He is one reason and is the organiser.
The prime social reason is that local patriotism has been politically discouraged in mainland Britain for many years now. Brian can go to a formal dinner and speak to a friend about needing support for chess. 'How much?' '£10,000 would help'. It is all settled there and then. Of course there are much bigger sponsors such as Tradewise and the Tourist Board. It is the Tradewise Gibraltar Masters, yet I notice nobody has referred to it as that. Only the Lloyds Bank Masters was always referred to by the name of the sponsor.

Another problem is that football sucks the blood out of sponsorship for relatively minor sports. It does not help that we do not get TV coverage.
But it is aggravating that Hastings, which attracts about 400 column inches of publicity worldwide cannot find a substantial business sponsor. It is not for lack of trying. e.g. a presentation was held at the House of Commons a few years ago.

Of course the London Chess Classic compares in quality with Gibraltar. That is supported by anonymous philanthropy, a different business model. The playing venue is superb. But forumites often prefer to rubbish British chess, rather than build it up.

By the way, Mike, Horntye Park in Hastings is a superior playing venue to The Caleta Hotel. When I first visited the venue in 2002 I was concerned that the Caleta would not eventually be able to hold all the players who would want to play. I suspect they thought I was mad.

Last year Qatar claimed their event was the strongest open. But somebody on this forum said his entry as an under 2200 was refused.
Perhaps the Tradewise Gibraltar Masters should be restricted to players 2250+. That would free up some room in the afternoon. There are wonderful rating restricted events in the morning as well.

David Sedgwick
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by David Sedgwick » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:07 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:It is the Tradewise Gibraltar Masters, yet I notice nobody has referred to it as that. Only the Lloyds Bank Masters was always referred to by the name of the sponsor.
Quite right. I've amended my post.

Stewart Reuben wrote:Horntye Park in Hastings is a superior playing venue to The Caleta Hotel.
That's a matter of opinion.

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JustinHorton
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by JustinHorton » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:10 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:The prime social reason is that local patriotism has been politically discouraged in mainland Britain for many years now.
Really? In what way?
Stewart Reuben wrote:Another problem is that football sucks the blood out of sponsorship for relatively minor sports.
How does it do that? Who are these people who are sponsoring football who ould otherwise be sponsoring chess?
Stewart Reuben wrote:But forumites often prefer to rubbish British chess, rather than build it up.
What does this mean? What spedcifically are people saying that you think they should not be saying?
"Do you play chess?"
"Yes, but I prefer a game with a better chance of cheating."

lostontime.blogspot.com

Ian Thompson
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Ian Thompson » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:04 am

Stewart Reuben wrote:Of course the London Chess Classic compares in quality with Gibraltar. That is supported by anonymous philanthropy, a different business model. The playing venue is superb. But forumites often prefer to rubbish British chess, rather than build it up.
A superb playing venue apart from:
  • The boards being too close together.
    Many of the rows of tables being too close together.
    There being no door between the entrance to the playing area and the rest of the venue, with consequent noise close to the entrance.
    Inadequate toilet facilities.
I'm not saying the playing venue was bad. It's comparable to what one often encounters. It falls well short of 'superb'. Of course, all of these could be addressed by reducing the number of players taking part, so that is my suggestion on what the organisers should do to change the playing venue into quite a good one.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:11 am

Justin. Many years ago local autonomy was encouraged in Britain. The Thatcher government was very good in many ways, but it set about diminishing the ability of local councils to make decisions about their spending priorities. This has had the effect that you do not get the local companies making investments in, for example, chess events.

Football has a huge number of different sponsors. Some of those used to be of type that would put some money into chess. At one time chess had about 10 different business sponsors. In my opinion some of the companies that sponsor football could be sponsoring other sports. This results in other companies taking up the slack. The overall effect is that less money is available for minority activities such as chess.

On this thread people have chosen to say how bad Hastings is. But they have not at the same time extolled the virtues of other events such as the British Chess Championships, the London Chess Classic and the 4NCL. To knock Hastings and then, virtually in the same sentence, to decry the difficulty of getting business sponsorship for the event, is hardly constructive. What efforts have people made to improve matters?

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Roger de Coverly » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:22 am

Ian Thompson wrote: I'm not saying the playing venue was bad. It's comparable to what one often encounters.
Presumably you mean the London Classic at Olympia.

I can recall from forty years ago being serious under impressed by the Falaise Hall in Hastings. This was when the Premier had been moved to the basement of the White Rock Theatre. That was fine apart from the actors in the Pantomime above suggesting to the audience that they should bang their feet to annoy the Soviet chess players below. The staging in the Falaise was non-existent. By this time, one had become accustomed that weekend Swiss tournaments would segregate the top games and present them on a demo board. The players themselves would be on a stage or in some way identified as the elite. Nothing like this was evident at Hastings and the lighting was bad as well. By the mid 1980s improvements had been made and the Falaise Hall was an adequate venue, particularly as the lighting was better. It could be bad for your health as any colds would spread, I assume because of poor ventilation. The draughty Ballroom on the Pier was better from that viewpoint

Hastings at least has always provided chairs, I refuse to accept that a venue can be classed as "good" if it fails to provide seating with backs to lean against.

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:56 am

Hastings International Chess Congress has now been played at Horntye Park for many years. Falaise Hall, the Queen's Hotel, White Rock Theatre, Pier Ballroom, YMCA were all much inferior. The Cinque Ports Hotel was fine for the Premier, but no longer exists.
My opinion remains unchanged. Horntye Park where Hastings takes place is the best regular venue for chess in Britain, for the number of players it attracts . I am trying to think of superior venues worldwide. The venue at Dresden for the Olympiad wasn't big enough. The noise of the women walking in high heels was unpleasant. I warned about that two years before the event. Istanbul less than perfect. Tromso was mediocre. The Riviera Hotel in Vegas for the National Open in very good. Torquay is fine for the British Championships.

Chris Rice
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:51 am

Just out of sheer curiosity I had a quick tot up of the total prize funds of some of the major British tournaments being discussed. For the British, Gibraltar and the London Classic the amounts should be pretty much exact. The Isle of Man and Hastings amounts shouldn't be too far away from the truth though I couldn't guarantee I'd got everything after perusing the relevant web sites. For Isle of Man I haven't put any Poker prizes in, just the three chess sections it had:

Hastings 2014/15 c. £8,450
Isle of Man 2014 c. £21,000
British 2014 £25,693
London Classic 2014 £41,400
Gibraltar 2015 £175,000

It's only now I can fully appreciate Richard's initial comment because if these figures are anywhere near accurate you can add Hastings, British, London Chess Classic and the Isle of Man together and this will still leave you £75,000+ short of the astonishing Gibraltar prize fund. The Gibraltar sponsors seem to be really generous. Could be worthwhile finding out how they were approached and what's in it for them. Maybe ask Brian Callaghan? The Gibraltar sponsors get their own page on the web site with an explanation, again a nice touch. http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/sponsors.htm

I'm sure there must be something there that other tournaments can use or build on. For example, Hastings has 38 major attractions according to TripAdvisor and some really great historical sites including one of the most significant battles in English history and you wonder whether they would be willing to donate some funds to the cause in return for driving some custom to the attractions. Like Gibraltar, Hastings has its own tourist office, how much do they contribute or would be willing to contribute given its their only job to bring tourists in particularly in an off-peak period?

Stewart Reuben
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Stewart Reuben » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:47 am

Chris, one of the problems with Hastings is that, from the viewpoint of a visitor, it is a bad time of year. Of course Hastings has some major attractions, although I would be hard-pressed to name 38. The tourist office has been part of the Hastings chess committee for many years.
Of course there have been discussions with Brian Callaghan about Britain. Stuart Conquest, being a GM and a Spanish speaker, is also a valuable asset to the Tradewise Gibraltar Congress.
The prize funds don't tell the whole story. There is also the start money for leading players. This is proportionately less for the Tradewise event because the money has been sunk into the prize fund. But remember a player under 2250 could win £6000 in Gibraltar, discounting the possibility of his/her winning a major prize. He wuld have to play 20 rated games in 11 days.
Where the money comes from is also interesting. All five events have entry fee income. The second biggest Hastings sponsor is the control team who do not receive fees and also some live locally.

But what could forumites do? I don't know whether it is still true that the managers of local banks and building societies have a fund which they can apply to encourage local activity. I remember, when I was in charge of the British, we could not access such money from NatWest one year because it is a national event, not local. If there is a local chamber of commerce or Rotary Club, then the members can be approached. This is often more successful with junior activity. The ECF will not be as successful as local people in making such approaches.

Chris Rice
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Re: Gibraltar 26 January - 5 February 2015

Post by Chris Rice » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:42 pm

Stewart Reuben wrote:Chris, one of the problems with Hastings is that, from the viewpoint of a visitor, it is a bad time of year. Of course Hastings has some major attractions, although I would be hard-pressed to name 38. The tourist office has been part of the Hastings chess committee for many years.
I wouldn't disagree with you on the first sentence Stewart, the weather in Hastings is often awful. There were times when we played on the pier that the whole structure was rocking when the wind and tide came in that you thought you were going to be washed out to sea. Or when it got so cold that the water in the toilets froze. Great days.

For some reason when I went back to TripAdvisor the list of attractions had dropped down to 35. Still a good number though and a welcome diversion from the chess and the temptation of the pubs in the Old Town. http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction ... d.html#TtD

I am intending to play Hastings this year as I really don't want it to be the last so need to support it if its going to have a future. All of the posters here have been trying to make constructive comments I think and I'm sure would be willing to help if you think we could make a difference.