The State of English Chess: Something Else to Get Depressed about?

[Mike Truran]

Maybe. But how many IMs and GMs have 3Cs produced over the last decade? And whatever the number, is it a good return on the effort that has been invested?

[Alan Walton]

True Mike, we have only produced one GM and 4 FMs

Though the majority of our juniors are schooled through the public school system, so parents don't have the opportunities to afford private coaches

Over the many years I have been playing chess, I totally have to agree with Simon's comments, though what I am saying is nobody at 3Cs is doing it to promote themselves, just to believe that they can be playing to the best of their own abilities and enjoy the social ethos of the club

[Mike Truran]

Alan, please don't misunderstand me - the team at 3Cs do a great job. My suggestion was that at national level, as with football, the Germans do these things in a far more organised, structured, coordinated and well funded way than we do.

[Alan Walton]

Totally agree Mike, if we had (have) better guidance from the top then we could go a lot further, but unfortunately the ECF has been so ineptly run over the past decades 3Cs have decided to go alone a little

[Jonathan Bryant]

True Mike, we have only produced one GM and 4 FMs

Though the majority of our juniors are schooled through the public school system, so parents don't have the opportunities to afford private coaches

Over the many years I have been playing chess, I totally have to agree with Simon's comments, though what I am saying is nobody at 3Cs is doing it to promote themselves, just to believe that they can be playing to the best of their own abilities and enjoy the social ethos of the club

Alan, when you say "public school system" do you mean state schools or fee-paying schools?


Out of interest, do you have any opinion on why it is that the 3Cs model isn’t duplicated elsewhere in the country?

[David Robertson]

But 3Cs, notwithstanding its relative successes, hasn't created something from nothing. As a club, it's an after-hours extension of Manchester GS with a dash of Oldham Bluecoat thrown in. If there's significantly more to it than this, I'm sure Alan will be straight back to tell me. Now it's perfectly sensible to act as 3Cs do, working with promising young players at the secondary level. But first, you must have them still playing at that level. Whether 3Cs can claim Stephen Gordon's GM title needs teasing out. If 3Cs did indeed make the difference, supplying the key added value, then we need to know how, and bottle it.

[Richard James]

Richard, what is your opinion on the ECF's Academy plans?

Would it be too cynical of me to suggest that one reason for their Academy plans was very much the same reason that they set up the ECF Forum: that they saw someone else setting up a FIDE Academy outside their jurisdiction and didn't like it very much?

[Alan Walton]

Replying to some of the comments

The overwhelming majority of the work done isn't done at secondary level but primary school level

The MGS connection is relatively recent, most players attend the club before they attend the school

Regarding Blue Coat all these players were already playing before they attended this school, and the success of the school was mainly around the fortunate situation of dozen players occurring at the same time

David, you maybe correct that SG would have become a GM whatever the environment he grew up in (as any other GM), but you could argue without the necessary structure set up in schools in Oldham then it is likely he would never have actually started the game and improve quickly in his informative years

[Richard James]

Maybe. But how many IMs and GMs have 3Cs produced over the last decade? And whatever the number, is it a good return on the effort that has been invested?

I seem to recall there was another junior chess club that produced something like 4 GMs, 6 IMs, 1 WIM, 6 FMs and 1 WFM.

I guess they must have been doing something right. I can't remember what it was called, though. Perhaps it was something like Richmond Junior Chess Club?

But it's not just about producing IMs and GMs. It's more a question of producing young people who continue their interest in and involvement with chess, regardless of their standard of play. Yes, we need IMs and GMs, but we also need club secretaries and treasurers, match captains, teachers, tournament organisers, arbiters, graders, and perhaps even people to run the 4NCL...

I'm all in favour of junior chess clubs. They, rather than primary schools, should be the main focus of competitive chess for young children. They can provide outreach to schools as and when required. The IMs and GMs (and even the club standard players) should really be working within academies /junior chess clubs every evening teaching kids who are serious about chess and have supportive parents, rather than running around schools teaching kids who will never make significant progress and whose parents don't want them to excel at chess.

[David Robertson]

OK, Alan, that's helpful. It sounds as if we're doing the same kind of thing at Chester now, but several years behind 3Cs (and several light years behind Richmond CC). That is, the intervention begins at the primary level, and is sustained in conjunction with receptive secondary schools. In 3Cs' case, these are the Oldham schools, including Bluecoat; and MGS. In Chester's case, a number of the youngsters now attend King's School, but also Wirral GS and Caldy Grange GS. In both cases, 3Cs and Chester run junior teams in local adult leagues. That's important too

[Alan Walton]

The most important factor is not who actually runs the club, it is exploiting the parents in the correct way

3Cs tries to employ the parents in different ways; running the tuck shop, transportation for matches, and finally actually being non-playing captains

I suspect that the majority of parents within English junior chess are only interested in how their own kids do and not thinking about the bigger picture

[Richard James]

The most important factor is not who actually runs the club, it is exploiting the parents in the correct way

3Cs tries to employ the parents in different ways; running the tuck shop, transportation for matches, and finally actually being non-playing captains

I suspect that the majority of parents within English junior chess are only interested in how their own kids do and not thinking about the bigger picture

I don't think 'exploiting' is quite the word you want, but this is exactly what used to happen in Richmond up to 10 years ago.

Now it's no longer possible for us - parents in this area are cash rich and time poor. The type of employment you require to afford the astronomical property prices in this area means that parents no longer have time to take on this sort of role. They're much happier to pay for someone else to do the admin.