Top 12 French League

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Mike Truran
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Top 12 French League

Post by Mike Truran » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:34 pm

Latest positions in the current French Team Championships.

Just thought you might want to try your hand at working out what the various columns mean! "Pts" and "j." are reasonably straightforward - the others somewhat less so. It took me around five minutes to work it all out (some of which was spent tracking down the Top 12 website). I expect some of the mega-brains out there will do it a lot more quickly.

No doubt the "Pts" column is the important one - but I'm still not sure how the tie-breaks work.

Apologies for the formatting. Perhaps one of the moderators can sort it out?

Pl. Equipe Pts j. d. p. c.
1 Bischwiller 24 8 24 32 8
2 Clichy 22 8 25 32 7
3 Bois-Colombes 21 8 17 26 9
4 Strasbourg 18 8 2 14 12
5 Evry Grand Roque 18 8 -5 16 21
6 Chalons-En-Champagne 17 8 5 21 16
7 Mulhouse Philidor 16 8 4 19 15
8 Montpellier 14 8 -8 16 24
9 Vandoeuvre 13 8 -7 14 21
10 Metz Fischer 11 8 -13 10 23
11 Grasse 10 8 -13 8 21
12 Poitiers-Migne 8 8 -31 6 37

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:41 pm

I'm guessing d = points difference, p = points for, c = points against.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:41 pm

(And that table is going to be nontrivial to convert, because it was written in a proportional font and copied over as a lump of text.)

Mike Truran
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Mike Truran » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:46 pm

I'm guessing d = points difference, p = points for, c = points against.
Close, but no cigar.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:16 pm

Mike Truran wrote:Just thought you might want to try your hand at working out what the various columns mean! "Pts" and "j." are reasonably straightforward - the others somewhat less so.
The French ignore draws in their match results, so I think p. is "pour" and c. is "contre", for total number of games won and lost.. d. is the "difference" between the two.

Mike Truran
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:04 am

Correct!

Match points I imagine decide the final positions, but as regards the tie breaks I have no idea. Presumably TB1 = difference between games won and lost, TB2 = games won, TB3 = games lost?

If I have time I may plough through the FFE regulations to find out. Or maybe not. If someone could provide some enlightenment it would be appreciated.

If I'm right, what do the ecforum statisticians think about the tie breaks? Compare and contrast with the 4NCL??!!

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:17 am

Unless penalty points come into the equation, {games won - games lost} is going to be equivalent to game points as a tie-break.

Mike Truran
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:27 am

Indeed - but does anyone know what the tie breaks actually are? Per my earlier post, I may do some research on the FFE website if I have the time/energy - or if forumites can't provide the answer.

Come on Roger! This is your hour!

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:04 am

It also took me a few seconds to realise that match points appear to be 3 for a win, 2 for a draw and 1 for a loss.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Michael Flatt » Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:34 am

The rules are given here: http://www.echecs.asso.fr/Reglements/Re ... _Clubs.pdf

Match points (section 4.2) are assigned: win 3 points, draw 2 points, loss 1 point, defaulted (not played) o points, defaulted (after playing) 1 point.
When total match points are equal, the sequence of tie breaks (section 4.4) is:
1. The Individual match points between those teams to be separated by tie break: (i)match points, (ii)point difference, (iii)points for
2. (i)"Point difference", taking into account all teams, (ii) "points for", taking into account all teams
3. Finally, the sum of differences on each board taken in board order; ie, 1st board, then second board and so on.
The leading two teams from the Top 12 qualify for the Club European Cup

Mike Truran
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Mike Truran » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:12 am

Merci beaucoup, Michael! Sounds very comprehensive, if a little complicated for bears of little brain like me.

Michael Flatt
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Michael Flatt » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:10 am

The tie break rules do seem quite typical of the French way of organising sporting and other activities.

This is the first time I have spent any time looking at the French Chess Federation website. I do find it really interesting to see how different their website is in comparison to the ECF's. It so simple and easy to navigate.

Their membership scheme (licensing) classifies players into two groups: Those who only play games less than 61 minutes (Licence B) and those who play in all types of competition (Licence A). Fees are determined according to licence type and age, of which there are many categories. The fee is made up of a Federation contribution and League/competition contribution. Clubs also pay an affiliation fee according to the number of licensed members.

There is an emphasis on training for both Players and Arbiters. Also, they are very focused regarding selection of players to represent France in International events (Adults, Women, Visually impaired and Juniors/Youths).

I don't how well the system works in practice but it looks good. Only 22 miles away, yet so different!
Last edited by Michael Flatt on Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:40 am

Michael Flatt wrote:This is the first time I have spent any time looking at the French Chess Federation website. I do find it really interesting to see how different their website is in comparison to the ECF's.
I like the motto in the banner on their website:
ffe motto.jpg
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Leonard Barden
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Re: Top 12 French League

Post by Leonard Barden » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:30 pm

Apparently only one Englishman in these teams, (contrast the number of Frenchmen in the 4NCL, what happened to reciprocation?) who has scored this impressive win against a former world No3.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1794236

David Robertson

Re: Top 12 French League

Post by David Robertson » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:06 pm

There was an interesting conclusion to the Rd 4 game: Skripchenko - Benmesbah

Skripchenko, well on top, played 52 Rh3, and completed the win soon after.

But as one well-known chess blogger likes to put it: after 52 Rh3, Black to play and CRUSH

A position for a future Leonard Barden column, maybe?