2nd GM norm for Daniel Fernandez

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Thanks. Does anyone know/remember where Yang-Fan's second norm was?

[Leonard Barden]

Yang-Fan has drawn in this afternoon's round 7 and Daniel has won, so they are both on 5/7, level with the No2 seed GM Spasov and one other. The top seed Bernadskiy has 4.5 and is still in play against another 4.5.

Yang-Fan's TPR is 2564 so he still has good chances for the GM norm, but he will need to get paired against Spasov or Bernadskiy in the final two rounds for his third GM opponent.

Yang-Fan has had several near misses for his second GM norm but pace Jack's statement I'm not aware of his having achieved it yet.

[Leonard Barden]

Update: Round 8 pairings IM Fernandez (5) v GM Bernadskiy (5)
GM Spasov (5) v IM Zhou (5)

so Yang-Fan now has the required three GM opponents.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

It would be ironic if Dan won the tournament while not getting a norm. Best of luck for Yang-Fan in getting the win that I presume he would need to take his TPR over 2600 (hopefully it would). Then a new thread could be started with a title similar to this one!

Also very pleasing to see two England players up there vying for first place. Looking further down, I see no less than three GMs withdrew from the tournament after the early rounds. Unless there are good reasons for that, it is disgrace as it clearly made it very difficult to get GM norms here. Two of those GMs also lost 6 times between them over 8 rounds. Does that not seem a little, um, strange?

[NickFaulks]

How many GM norms does Yang-Fan have? I know he got one in 2013 at the Big Slick event, but is that the only one so far? Someone should really keep an up-to-date list somewhere in addition to the FIDE listings.

Those that have been sent in can be found on the FIDE website.

[Stewart Reuben]

Chritopher >Looking further down, I see no less than three GMs withdrew from the tournament after the early rounds. Unless there are good reasons for that, it is disgrace as it clearly made it very difficult to get GM norms here. Two of those GMs also lost 6 times between them over 8 rounds. Does that not seem a little, um, strange?<

It depends on the conditions the GMs were offered. e,g, if they even had to pay an entry fee, why should they not withdraw when it became clear they were not going to win a prize? If a player receives start money or an appearance fee, then they have a contractual duty to continue to play in the tournament. For RR tournaments it even states this for every entrant in the Competition Rules.
8.2 Round robins
Each player has entered into a contract to play throughout the tournament

[Leonard Barden]

Alas!

Fernandez 0-1 Bernadskiy
Spasov 1-0 Zhou

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Does anyone know why the norms by Daniel Fernandez are not showing on the FIDE website?

https://ratings.fide.com/title_norms.ph ... ountry=ENG

Also last year Yang-Fan Zhou got a second GM norm.
And Matthew Wadsworth got an IM norm.

There may be other norms. But none of those above are showing on the FIDE website.

[DFernandez]

In my case, if one --doesn't-- filter the list by federation, my name is there, under the SIN (Singapore) federation, and FIDE have both norms in the system.

I suppose it makes sense because I made my first one while playing under that flag. Less clear is why I'm not returned when one filters either for SIN or ENG. In general though it seems like this is a patchy and only sporadically updated list, not to be taken seriously

YF has only one norm in the system; so, too, does fellow double-norm-holder Justin Tan- the missing one was scored in the Colin Crouch memorial; and finally quite a few of the listed players are already GM's. For instance, Dennis Wagner.

[Christopher Kreuzer]

Interesting, I didn't know the list was that badly maintained. It does seem to be an official list in the sense that it is on the FIDE website, so there will be someone at FIDE who will be responsible for maintaining it. Maybe someone like Nick Faulks or others familiar with FIDE may be able to say more (or indeed the ECF official who liaises with FIDE).

[NickFaulks]

Interesting, I didn't know the list was that badly maintained.

The list only contains norms of which FIDE has been informed. There is a hope that one day norms from all events reported for rating will be discovered automatically, but this is a very substantial task. Meanwhile, FIDE relies upon federations to do their job.

I do see that the norms of players who have been awarded their title are not always scrubbed out. I shall ask about that, although I can't see that it actually does much harm.

[LawrenceCooper]

The list only contains norms of which FIDE has been informed. There is a hope that one day norms from all events reported for rating will be discovered automatically, but this is a very substantial task. Meanwhile, FIDE relies upon federations to do their job.

Somewhat frustrating given I went to the trouble of registering missed norms over a thirty year period before bowing out as the ECF IRO

[NickFaulks]

Somewhat frustrating given I went to the trouble of registering missed norms over a thirty year period before bowing out as the ECF IRO

Yes, the ECF ( ie you ) did a terrific job, as did some other federations. It shows what is possible when a rigorous deadline is imposed.

[Stewart Reuben]

Nick F> There is a hope that one day norms from all events reported for rating will be discovered automatically, but this is a very substantial task. <

That used to be true, but why is it still today for the norms? All games are sent in for rating. The rating information is put into the system. Why not also have a program to identify all norm? The direct titles are another, separate issue.
I remember Geurt and I discussing whether a substantial number of norms were overlooked by the federations. We agreed that, at the time, there must have been quite a large number never noticed. Earlier still, prime among these was the last GM norm of Jonathan Mestel. That was overlooked for two years. Yet Jonathan is an exceptionally highly intelligent, knowledgeable man.

[NickFaulks]

Why not also have a program to identify all norm?

Please don't let me stop you from writing it.