Kasparov refers to chess in England!

[JustinHorton]

If you ignore the cobblers about not being shown enough respect, though, it's an interesting piece.

[Mick Norris]

If you ignore the cobblers about not being shown enough respect, though, it's an interesting piece.

Nigel's posting about chess are usually well thought out and very interesting - he also has a great deal of experience in getting adults to improve their chess yet had the sense to realise that he hadn't the particular expertise in teaching his son Sam, so headed for (I think) Richard James' website and books for advice - Sam is now winning minor tournaments - Nigel is interesting to talk to face to face as well

The only thing in the piece I didn't see is a solution to the problem - the reason tournament organisers don't pay GMs and/or don't pay higher prizes, is that the income from entry fees (and possibly sponsorship) less the expenditure (particularly on room hire, which is much more expensive than it used to be) doesn't leave anything for higher prizes (and experiments on higher prizes attracting higher numbers of entries haven't seemed to work)

[Brian Towers]

Here's a link to the perspective of a semi-retired British GM.
http://chessimprover.com/the-english-chess-implosion/

"GMs being spoken of with contempt by rank and file players" - how widespread is this really?

He also says:

Essentially I would say titled players do not feel particularly respected or wanted

Putting the "wanted" bit to one side for a moment as being a bit needy, he has a point. I'm about 4 years older than him and I grew up in a GM-free England. When Kortchnoi came to Sunderland NALGO club in 1972 to give a simul it was a chance to play against a chess god. I still remember most of the moves. GM's were held in a level respect then which is almost totally absent nowadays just because they are now so relatively common.

He is right about a lot of other things too. Miles could have bought a nice house for the £5,000 Jim Slater gave him for being England's first otb GM. It's tempting to say that in Sunderland he could have bought a whole street but 2 or 3 houses would be more accurate. Nowadays Mrs Worthington would do much better to put her daughter on the stage than she would to teach her chess.

[MartinCarpenter]

I think the wanted bit is quite relevant too? Basically to make really producing GMs worth it, you'd need to find a way that society 'needed' a decent number (10?,20? whatever) of active GM's.
(As in prepared to support to a half decent lifestyle.).

If people as enormously strong as McShane/Sadler are basically giving the game up (yes, coming back too but still) then you can see how bad the problem is.

Makes you wonder a bit if the Germans have any specific plan for all these young IM's they're producing, or if its just been set up/run as another 'routine' elite sports program.

[David Blower]

The key thing is the venue costs are high.

Therefore to make a profit on a congress, the cost has to come out of the prize fund.

[JustinHorton]

If people as enormously strong as McShane/Sadler are basically giving the game up (yes, coming back too but still) then you can see how bad the problem is.

But how are you going to make chess pay these people anything like the money they can get elsewhere? I don't see how you can.

[MartinCarpenter]

But how are you going to make chess pay these people anything like the money they can get elsewhere? I don't see how you can.

Neither do I really Obviously even worse for people who won't ever be quite as good at chess, but quite possibly as good at other stuff.

Guess if we're dreaming and suppose the state somehow offered a moderate living for a few chess players (and this is really is dreaming!), there'd be some who'd prefer it.

[NickFaulks]

"GMs being spoken of with contempt by rank and file players" - how widespread is this really?

I wondered whether he was talking about amateurs following games with computers and mocking GMs for "missing" moves that are "+2.8"

[David Robertson]

"GMs being spoken of with contempt by rank and file players" - how widespread is this really?

It should be very widespread indeed.

A number of GMs - some very eminent, some very much less so - spew out all manner of ill-educated, poorly informed twaddle. They fully deserve the ridicule they attract. Some GMs, high on their own self-importance, think they can opinionate on all manner of matters by virtue of their title. It comes as a shock to their self-regard when they discover their utterances outside the chess bubble get soaked in scorn. Long may it continue

[Nigel_Davies]

A number of GMs - some very eminent, some very much less so - spew out all manner of ill-educated, poorly informed twaddle. They fully deserve the ridicule they attract. Some GMs, high on their own self-importance, think they can opinionate on all manner of matters by virtue of their title. It comes as a shock to their self-regard when they discover their utterances outside the chess bubble get soaked in scorn. Long may it continue

Doesn't really seem fair when taxi drivers can get away with it..

http://www.tigerchess.com
http://www.chessimprover.com

[Christopher Kreuzer]

I was going to ask David if he had anyone in mind. Who of the top GMs (or any GMs in fact) are the most outspoken and/or controversial? I was reading David's comments and wondering if, for example, they would apply to someone like Kasparov (he was the most eminent GM I could think of)! Late-departed GMs can be included as well... And (bit harder this) which GMs have a reputation for being listened to?

[Nigel_Davies]

A number of Professors - some very eminent, some very much less so - spew out all manner of ill-educated, poorly informed twaddle. They fully deserve the ridicule they attract. Some Professors, high on their own self-importance, think they can opinionate on all manner of matters by virtue of their title. It comes as a shock to their self-regard when they discover their utterances outside the adademic bubble get soaked in scorn. Long may it continue

There are some very obvious targets, though it's not clear why GMs get singled out when others with titles seem just as guilty...

http://www.tigerchess.com
http://www.chessimprover.com

[Jonathan Bryant]

I was going to ask David if he had anyone in mind. Who of the top GMs (or any GMs in fact) are the most outspoken and/or controversial? I was reading David's comments and wondering if, for example, they would apply to someone like Kasparov (he was the most eminent GM I could think of)! Late-departed GMs can be included as well... And (bit harder this) which GMs have a reputation for being listened to?

Garry Kasparov is absolutely a good example of somebody who doesn’t recognise when he’s paddled out of his depth, yes.

Sarah Hurst's quote in an interview on the Kingpin website (http://www.kingpinchess.net/2015/01/sar ... questions/)

... chess brilliance has nothing to do with high intelligence in other areas, but tends to give top players a false idea of their own high intelligence. They equate their FIDE rating with their IQ. In fact they have devoted so much time to chess that they may not be so brilliant at other things.

applies to here (i.e. Gazza/this thread)< I think.

[Nigel_Davies]

I do hope someone apart from myself appreciates the irony of this discussion here on the legendary 'English Chess Forum'. This place is brimming over with poorly informed twaddle!


http://www.tigerchess.com
http://www.chessimprover.com

[MartinCarpenter]

Its the universal state for online forums