Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

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NickFaulks
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:44 pm

Matt Mackenzie wrote:Korchnoi would have done it older than that given today's rating inflation I would have thought?
Rating inflation is an ill-defined concept. However, Viktor was world #2 at age 50 and #5 at age 58, which probably supports the point you are making.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:07 pm

Richard Bates wrote:Looking forward to the nailed on Batsiashvili-Hou Yifan pairing tomorrow ;)
You got it.

Richard Bates
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:12 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:Looking forward to the nailed on Batsiashvili-Hou Yifan pairing tomorrow ;)
You got it.
Lol. Moving smoothly to 3/3. When the results were in I decided the colour mix would just miss it (although obviously right for the two players). But fate prevailed... ;)

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:21 pm

Richard Bates wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:Looking forward to the nailed on Batsiashvili-Hou Yifan pairing tomorrow ;)
You got it.
Lol. Moving smoothly to 3/3. When the results were in I decided the colour mix would just miss it (although obviously right for the two players). But fate prevailed... ;)
Harika pencilled in for round 4.

Tim Harding
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Tim Harding » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:01 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Richard Bates wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:
You got it.
Lol. Moving smoothly to 3/3. When the results were in I decided the colour mix would just miss it (although obviously right for the two players). But fate prevailed... ;)
Harika pencilled in for round 4.
Hou Yifan should have White for that one; good chance of a Grob?

Then Jovanka in round 5 if she can maintain her good form from today.
Tim Harding
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Chris Rice
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:24 am

The only sensible explanation is that the Universe has a voodoo doll of Hou Yifan and is currently sticking pins into it. Round 3 pairings. Chess24 on FB "The Round 3 pairings include Carlsen-Xiong, Shirov-Nakamura & Timman-Gelfand, but they're all overshadowed by Hou Yifan (see Board 22) being paired with a third woman in a row. The curse of Gibraltar continues...."

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:30 am

Chris Rice wrote:The curse of Gibraltar continues...."
A win certainly and perhaps a draw should result in an upward pairing. As the highest rated female, that guarantees a male opponent.

Richard Bates
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Richard Bates » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:52 am

Pairing seems to rely on who the algorithm decided should do a colour switch to correct the imbalance on the score group. Being non trained in the dark arts of pairing systems, I would have thought logic would dictate it would be the lowest rated player in the bottom half (which would have meant Hou Yifan playing Christiansen) but since when did logic play any part in algorithms? ;)

By happy coincidence it also resulted in an all female pairing for Ju Wenjun/Jovanka which otherwise wouldn't have happened!

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:38 am

"If Arsenal are drawn away five times in the FA Cup does anyone say its "unfair"? No, it's just the luck of the draw."

Actually, Arsenal get at least 60 % home matches in Cup events!

The main problem with a random draw is that you don't know it is - it could be fiddled to favour (or annoy) certain players. If you follow strict pairing rules, you can at least explain to Hou Yifan etc., that the pairings are correct. Having the first round drawn out of a hat is a bit of fun and obviously Kramnik and Caruana thought it was amusing. Having lots of random rounds would probably be a nightmare!

Chris Rice
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Chris Rice » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:41 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"If Arsenal are drawn away five times in the FA Cup does anyone say its "unfair"? No, it's just the luck of the draw."

Actually, Arsenal get at least 60 % home matches in Cup events!

The main problem with a random draw is that you don't know it is - it could be fiddled to favour (or annoy) certain players. If you follow strict pairing rules, you can at least explain to Hou Yifan etc., that the pairings are correct. Having the first round drawn out of a hat is a bit of fun and obviously Kramnik and Caruana thought it was amusing. Having lots of random rounds would probably be a nightmare!
So Arsenal getting 60% home matches in Cup events is a fiddle. I always had my suspicions. Seriously though having one round in one tournament a year with random pairings is perfectly acceptable. I thought Swedish GM, Nils Grandelius, was right on the mark yesterday (and echoes what you said) when he said that the random pairings were perhaps unfair, but why not sacrifice fairness for a bit of excitement once in a while.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:26 am

The F.A. cup draw is random. After round one the pairings were back to normal.

I think I'm correct in saying:

If Yifan wins this 3rd round game as Black she will be on 2½ and due a White
If Dronavalli Harika draws her next game as White she will on 2½ and due a Black.

So it could happen again all legal and above board.

I'm sure everything will be fine. If she queries the draw the arbiters will happily explain everything.
It appears the fiasco at Gibraltar happened because she was ignored, or felt she was being ignored.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:30 am

Kevin Thurlow wrote:"If Arsenal are drawn away five times in the FA Cup does anyone say its "unfair"? No, it's just the luck of the draw."

Actually, Arsenal get at least 60 % home matches in Cup events!
Only one out of four in last season's FA Cup though :wink: Tottenham may have the opportunity to win domestic cups playing every game at Wembley this season :shock:

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:36 am

Richard Bates wrote:Pairing seems to rely on who the algorithm decided should do a colour switch to correct the imbalance on the score group. Being non trained in the dark arts of pairing systems, I would have thought logic would dictate it would be the lowest rated player in the bottom half (which would have meant Hou Yifan playing Christiansen) but since when did logic play any part in algorithms? ;)
The colour-transfer is chosen so as to minimize the deviation from the optimal pairings by seeding. (Which, on occasion, can be a player in the top half, although this is uncommon this early in a tournament.)

David Sedgwick
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by David Sedgwick » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:53 am

Geoff Chandler wrote:It appears the fiasco at Gibraltar happened because she was ignored, or felt she was being ignored.
That is her contention. It is strongly disputed by the Gibraltar arbiters.

I have been a trenchant critic of Hou Yifan's behaviour in Gibraltar, but I am pleased to have the opportunity to give a different report.

Last Thursday evening she gave a simultaneous display against twenty to twenty five opponents, mostly local players but with one or two early arrivals interspersed. She conceded two draws.

She was charming to everyone throughout.

Geoff Chandler
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Re: Chess.com Isle Of Man Tournament 23 Sep to 1 Oct 2017

Post by Geoff Chandler » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:16 am

Hi David,

She has always been charming to everyone and of course the arbiters would dispute her reasons.

She was not happy with the draw, she asked about it and was not given a satisfactory explanation,
felt there was some kind of FIDE witch hunt going on so out came the Gibraltar Grob.

It worked!

Most reports never mentioned who won it far less the other two players involved in the play off for first place.

This draw looks OK. She will be fine with it.

Of course she will be smiling at the irony of it all and wondering 'Who called this place the Isle of Man'?'