English Chess Forum

It is possible that Carlsen could get a strategic advantage from taking part in the World Cup (as he is) or even in the Candidates Tournament (very unlikely), by coming ahead of a potential challenger for his title and so ensuring that someone else (possibly someone he might do better in a match against) becomes the challenger instead. The whole idea that the current champion might be able to influence over the board who his next challenger will be is a bit dodgy. The process to produce a challenger should not involve the current champion if the current champion is pre-qualified to the final match already (as is the case here).

Having said that, having the top 15 players in the world at the forthcoming World Cup is very exciting. I just hope Carlsen doesn't meet one of the England players early and knock them out of the competition!

Of course, with two of the qualifying places determined by rating, Carlsen or anyone else can already influence that, but not as directly as he can in the World Cup.

Roger de Coverly wrote:

NickFaulks wrote: I would guess this is just sloppy drafting, resulting from an understandable but careless assumption that Magnus would not take part. It is trivially simple to fix.

Does it actually say anywhere that the World Champion isn't eligible to compete in the Candidates?

The critical point is as to whether there are still two qualifiers to the Candidates from the World Cup if the finalists are Karjakin and Carlsen.

Have a look at the regulations and see if you think it prevents Magnus playing in the Candidates; if not, then he will qualify even if he is unlikely to play

Mick Norris wrote: see if you think it prevents Magnus playing in the Candidates

If he was allowed to play in the Candidates and won would it be to play against himself ?

1. 1
The Candidates Tournament to determine the challenger for the 2018 World Chess Championship Match shall be organised in the first quarter of 2018 and represents an integral part of the World Chess Championship regulations for the cycle 2016

It doesn't actually say that the challenger has to be the winner of the Candidates tournament.

If the World Cup draw allows for a Carlsen v Karjakin final, FIDE may need to clarify what happens next. If they rule that Carlsen isn't allowed to play in the Candidates under any circumstances, than their existing regulations stand. If he is notionally allowed to play but doesn't, they need to define how the substitute player will be determined.

Mick Norris wrote: Have a look at the regulations and see if you think it prevents Magnus playing in the Candidates; if not, then he will qualify even if he is unlikely to play

This is a non-issue. In chess as in any other sport, defending champions do not play in competitions designed solely to find their own challenger. They just don't.

What is critical is what happens if Carlsen progresses far enough in the World Cup to be a factor the selection process for the Candidates. Agon need to make this clear well before the start - today would be good.

If it came to it, surely FIDE could pass a "quickie" law making it explicit the WC doesn't actually play in the Candidates anyway?

NickFaulks wrote:In chess as in any other sport, defending champions do not play in competitions designed solely to find their own challenger. They just don't.

Except for a sporting event held around Bermuda last month, when they just did.

Team Oracle USA competed in the Louis Vuitton Cup, the winner of which qualified for the America's Cup.

Alex Holowczak wrote:Team Oracle USA competed in the Louis Vuitton Cup, the winner of which qualified for the America's Cup.

Yes, but the winner of the America's Cup actually wins the thing, they don't then have to challenge the previous winner.

Alex Holowczak wrote:Team Oracle USA competed in the Louis Vuitton Cup, the winner of which qualified for the America's Cup.

NickFaulks wrote:Yes, but the winner of the America's Cup actually wins the thing, they don't then have to challenge the previous winner.

Alex is right, Nick.

The Louis Vuitton Cup is the equivalent of the Challengers Tournament. The America's Cup is the equivalent of the World Championship match.

Team Oracle USA would have been in the America's Cup as defending champions wherever they had finished in the Louis Vitton Cup. As they won the latter, they contested the America's Cup against the team that won the Challenger Play-Offs. They were given a one race start in the America's Cup.

So Carlsen can play in the Candidates Tournament if he wishes. If he wins it, he defends his title against the player who finished second and he gets a one point start.

It's a possibility.

David Sedgwick wrote:

Alex Holowczak wrote:Team Oracle USA competed in the Louis Vuitton Cup, the winner of which qualified for the America's Cup.

NickFaulks wrote:Yes, but the winner of the America's Cup actually wins the thing, they don't then have to challenge the previous winner.

Alex is right, Nick.

The Louis Vuitton Cup is the equivalent of the Challengers Tournament. The America's Cup is the equivalent of the World Championship match.

Team Oracle USA would have been in the America's Cup as defending champions wherever they had finished in the Louis Vitton Cup. As they won the latter, they contested the America's Cup against the team that won the Challenger Play-Offs. They were given a one race start in the America's Cup.

So Carlsen can play in the Candidates Tournament if he wishes. If he wins it, he defends his title against the player who finished second and he gets a one point start.

It's a possibility.

A direct analogy would be if the Candidates tournament determined qualifiers for a series of playoff matches resulting in a World Championship challenger. Team Oracle dropped out after the Round Robin stage.

FIDE have published the First round pairings

David Howell v Aryan Tari
Gawain Jones v Jorge Cori
Michael Adams v Tsegmed Batchuluun

Cheers Chris; I see Karjakin is in the same half as Carlsen, so they can't meet in the final

Mick Norris wrote:Cheers Chris; I see Karjakin is in the same half as Carlsen, so they can't meet in the final

Got to hand it to Roger, he called it....

Roger de Coverly wrote: It would be easy enough to avoid. Just put them in the same half of the pairings, thus ensuring that they meet in the semis or earlier. The regulations would have to permit a ranking adjustment if necessary.

Chris Rice wrote:Got to hand it to Roger, he called it....

Can you see any way in which the pairings have been manipulated? They look straight down the middle to me.

Chris Rice wrote:FIDE have published the First round pairings

David Howell v Aryan Tari
Gawain Jones v Jorge Cori
Michael Adams v Tsegmed Batchuluun

Bit easier to read this

Gawain seeded to play Grischuk in round 2
David seeded to play Eljanov in round 2, then MVL
Mickey seeded to play Rodstein in round 2, then Vishy

Very tough competition