Xtracon Open 2017

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Mick Norris
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by Mick Norris » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:33 pm

Matthew Wadsworth on board 7 and Adam Taylor on board 11 also lost with black v GMs

Stephen Dishman had an eventful draw with Timman on board 15
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Mick Norris
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:23 am

IM Jack Rudd wrote:Jobava colour sequence: WBWWBBW
Short colour sequence: WBWBWBW

Both have had four whites and three blacks, so we go back to the last round in which they had different colours, which is round 5. Jobava had black and Short white in that round, so Short is more due black than Jobava is.
Round 9 and Jobava (7.5) not playing the only player on 7, which again is presumably the colour sequence
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:59 am

Mick Norris wrote:
IM Jack Rudd wrote:Jobava colour sequence: WBWWBBW
Short colour sequence: WBWBWBW

Both have had four whites and three blacks, so we go back to the last round in which they had different colours, which is round 5. Jobava had black and Short white in that round, so Short is more due black than Jobava is.
Round 9 and Jobava (7.5) not playing the only player on 7, which again is presumably the colour sequence
Jobava colour sequence: WBWWBBWW so he has to be black (can't have three of the same colour in a row)
Lyna Narayanan Sunilduth: WBWBWWBW so the problem I can see is giving him white would mean 6 whites out of 9.

"For each player the difference between the number of black and the number of white games shall not be greater than 2 or less than –2.
Each system may have exceptions to this rule in the last round of a tournament."

So they may be paired in the last round.

NickFaulks
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:47 am

Mick Norris wrote:
IM Jack Rudd wrote:Round 9 and Jobava (7.5) not playing the only player on 7, which again is presumably the colour sequence
Looks odd to me. I wonder whether this is the pairing Swiss Manager produces.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:08 am

NickFaulks wrote:
Mick Norris wrote:
IM Jack Rudd wrote:Round 9 and Jobava (7.5) not playing the only player on 7, which again is presumably the colour sequence
Looks odd to me. I wonder whether this is the pairing Swiss Manager produces.
Seemingly correct given the law quoted above though?

Mick Norris
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:05 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:
Mick Norris wrote:
IM Jack Rudd wrote:Jobava colour sequence: WBWWBBW
Short colour sequence: WBWBWBW

Both have had four whites and three blacks, so we go back to the last round in which they had different colours, which is round 5. Jobava had black and Short white in that round, so Short is more due black than Jobava is.
Round 9 and Jobava (7.5) not playing the only player on 7, which again is presumably the colour sequence
Jobava colour sequence: WBWWBBWW so he has to be black (can't have three of the same colour in a row)
Lyna Narayanan Sunilduth: WBWBWWBW so the problem I can see is giving him white would mean 6 whites out of 9.

"For each player the difference between the number of black and the number of white games shall not be greater than 2 or less than –2.
Each system may have exceptions to this rule in the last round of a tournament."

So they may be paired in the last round.
Yes, agree it is correct given we are only in the penultimate round, but wouldn't have occured if the pairings had given Nigel white (i.e. Jobava as higher rated kept colour sequence, which was my intuitive reaction)

Reminds me not to do the pairings for any event ever again :lol:
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:13 am

"Higher rated keeps colour sequence" is very low priority, though. It goes below "player with stronger colour preference keeps colour sequence" and "player on higher score keeps colour sequence".

NickFaulks
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:55 am

LawrenceCooper wrote:Seemingly correct given the law quoted above though?
The trouble with these "laws" is that you know you will sometimes have to break some, so they're really just an order of preference.

My impression is that you sort out the pairing groups first, and then you do your best with the colours. However, I am not an expert and have only recently tried to become an informed amateur.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:30 am

NickFaulks wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:Seemingly correct given the law quoted above though?
The trouble with these "laws" is that you know you will sometimes have to break some, so they're really just an order of preference.

My impression is that you sort out the pairing groups first, and then you do your best with the colours. However, I am not an expert and have only recently tried to become an informed amateur.
I doubt many would have queried the top two being paired and the white player would be unlikely to grumble at getting his sixth white in nine games. Were it his sixth black then he probably would though.

My interpretation of the law (which I only become aware of today) is that were it the last round then the pairing would have occurred.

NickFaulks
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:47 am

LawrenceCooper wrote: My interpretation of the law (which I only become aware of today) is that were it the last round then the pairing would have occurred.
I agree, but perhaps it should have anyway. This is when it is helpful for the arbiter to be able to invoke a computer pairing.
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LawrenceCooper
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:49 am

NickFaulks wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote: My interpretation of the law (which I only become aware of today) is that were it the last round then the pairing would have occurred.
I agree, but perhaps it should have anyway. This is when it is helpful for the arbiter to be able to invoke a computer pairing.
Ignoring the rule that says they can't I agree that they should play :)

NickFaulks
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:45 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:Ignoring the rule that says they can't I agree that they should play :)
You are conveniently ignoring the other rule which says that players are paired according to score groups. You can't obey both, and in my opinion score groups should take precedence.
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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:59 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:Ignoring the rule that says they can't I agree that they should play :)
You are conveniently ignoring the other rule which says that players are paired according to score groups. You can't obey both, and in my opinion score groups should take precedence.
In all British pairing systems I have come across, they do.

LawrenceCooper
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by LawrenceCooper » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:11 pm

NickFaulks wrote:
LawrenceCooper wrote:Ignoring the rule that says they can't I agree that they should play :)
You are conveniently ignoring the other rule which says that players are paired according to score groups. You can't obey both, and in my opinion score groups should take precedence.
Not conveniently ignoring because I don't agree with it but accepting that the law should be followed.

NickFaulks
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Re: Xtracon Open 2017

Post by NickFaulks » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:19 pm

LawrenceCooper wrote:Not conveniently ignoring because I don't agree with it but accepting that the law should be followed.
So you're happy to ignore the "law" about players first being separated into score groups.
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