An introduction...

[Michele Clack]

I don't think anyone was proposing a complete raft of segregated chess, just the occasional event to help girls network and realise there are other girls like them playing chess. The number of men commenting that they would hate the 4NCL to drop the woman player rule because they like the playing atmosphere at 4NCL compared to other competitions where there are few women suggests that more women players coming into chess would be welcome. For that to happen long term you have to encourage girls who might be feeling rather isolated.

[Mike Truran]

I would venture to suggest (at the risk of being shot down in flames) that the presence of women players at the 4NCL generally has an excellent civilising effect......

[Alex Holowczak]

It's noteworthy that in this thread, the men seem more in favour of the gender rule than the women this rule is supposed to be supporting.

[Mike Truran]

Not sure drawing a conclusion from a total of three women contributing is statistically valid? (Then again, the fact that only three women have contributed to the debate maybe says something about the state of women's chess in the UK).

[Alex Holowczak]

Agreed, and I'm not sure of how much experience they each have of a 4NCL weekend. Would be an interesting survey to conduct though...

[Louise Sinclair]

I captained a 4NCL squad for the NCCL on the strict understanding that I was a non playing captain. I refused to go along with acting as the token female player. It was not a happy experience as we had difficulties finding a woman who would play and a couple of the team were somewhat sniffy when she didn't win. The lady decided against playing further matches and frankly I couldn't blame her.
When I joined my first chess club I was the only woman there. However the strongest player in the club took me under his wing and I didn't feel intimidated because there weren't any other female players. Men are 50% of the human race - why on earth should it be assumed that a woman would feel ill at ease with them. Hell most of us go as far as to marry a guy.
I think the men favour the gender rule because
a) it keeps women out of the way in a female chess ghetto
b) it saves them making excuses when they are beaten by a woman.
Louise

[Gareth Harley-Yeo]

I captained a 4NCL squad for the NCCL on the strict understanding that I was a non playing captain. I refused to go along with acting as the token female player. It was not a happy experience as we had difficulties finding a woman who would play and a couple of the team were somewhat sniffy when she didn't win. The lady decided against playing further matches and frankly I couldn't blame her.
When I joined my first chess club I was the only woman there. However the strongest player in the club took me under his wing and I didn't feel intimidated because there weren't any other female players. Men are 50% of the human race - why on earth should it be assumed that a woman would feel ill at ease with them. Hell most of us go as far as to marry a guy.
I think the men favour the gender rule because
a) it keeps women out of the way in a female chess ghetto
b) it saves them making excuses when they are beaten by a woman.
Louise

c) Many male chess players don't get out much. It's their only chance to brush shoulders with the fairer sex.

[John Upham]

c) Many male chess players don't get out much. It's their only chance to brush shoulders with the fairer sex.

Judging from many male chess players appalling dress sense and dubious levels of personal hygiene this is not an incentive for women...

The dreadful jumper seems to be the default mode of dress.

[Louise Sinclair]

Gareth
Then you guys should be more welcoming and not suggest female segregation. I met my man at a chess club 25 years ago - it was mutual hate at first sight .....
Louise

[Gareth Harley-Yeo]

Gareth
Then you guys should be more welcoming and not suggest female segregation. I met my man at a chess club 25 years ago - it was mutual hate at first sight .....
Louise

Louise,

I personally disagree with the 4NCL’s women rule. I think people should play in the higher division based on ability not gender. That said I welcome women playing in the same tournaments as men, it certainly does create a more social atmosphere. Maybe that is the Catch-22. Women don’t want to partake in male dominated tournaments, preferring to enter ones where other women are competing, but if no women ever enter, then there will never be these idyllic congresses where both sexes intermingle both on and off the board. I think we need a few ladies to take up the mantle and enter these tournaments so that others get the confidence to enter too.

As for which tournaments are more ‘female friendly’ I think men would love the same conditions that you seem to be asking for, we’re just more willing to slum it in order to get a few games in than women are. It would seem that it is down to the organisers to find the best venues possible, and consider ‘would families be welcome here?’ rather than, ‘the room above the massage parlour is cheap and we can get a good discount’. Sean Hewitt’s e2e4 congresses are a fine example of how a good tournament is run. They should be the benchmark for other tournament organisers.

regards

Gareth ‘a non jumper wearing chess player’ Harley-Yeo

[Louise Sinclair]

Gareth
I only played tournaments involving men. This is a politically correct idea to cast women as stars in their own events. First females are taught to be victims then they behave as victms with the status accorded to disadvantaged people. Anyone wanting to improve their game should aim to play the strongest opposition possible.
I dislike the 4NCL rule and think people should be playing purely on merit. However most of the wimmins chess does seem to come from men although I know sensible fellows don't approve of gender segregation.
I have played in some crummy venues but it never stopped me having a chat with others during breaks - I once talked to David Bronstein at Hastings and he was kind enough to show me the game he had just finished.
Louise

[David Shepherd]

The 4NCL doesn't have a "women rule" - it has a mixed team rule which is not the same thing, it is only the current shortage of women players compared to men that make it know by many as the "women rule".

[Alex Holowczak]

The 4NCL doesn't have a "women rule" - it has a mixed team rule which is not the same thing, it is only the current shortage of women players compared to men that make it know by many as the "women rule".

It's a politically correct way of phrasing the rule with the intentions of getting more female players involved in Division One.

[Gareth Harley-Yeo]

The 4NCL doesn't have a "women rule" - it has a mixed team rule which is not the same thing, it is only the current shortage of women players compared to men that make it know by many as the "women rule".

It's a politically correct way of phrasing the rule with the intentions of getting more female players involved in Division One.

Like I said... a women rule

[Louise Sinclair]

Yes a woman rule without a doubt. It reminds me of tournaments which offer a prize to the highest scoring woman in the open section. I don't see them offering the prize to the highest scoring man if a woman wins it outright. I once asked a tournament organiser if he was offering a prize to the best man if a woman won the tournament.
His reply "don't be silly"
Louise