Women's In-Tournament Training II

Discuss anything you like about women's chess at home and abroad.
Sean Hewitt

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:47 pm

Alan Burke wrote:Sean ... I will also say AGAIN that my proposal was just an possible idea for the advancement of the game in general and that I NEVER said it could have either been used last weekend nor that it neccessarilly should be put into practice at any of your events in the future.
Au contraire
Alan Burke wrote:have you any thoughts on my amended suggestion....that instead of free entries to an event, the in-tournament coaching would still be free to competitors but the coaches would be funded by the entry fees received from those in the lowest section.
Given that e2e4 are the only event to have offered free entry to women, and that the event that did that was last weekend, perhaps you can see why a simple soul such as I would get confused :oops:

Alan Burke

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Alan Burke » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:32 pm

Sean.. yes, your event is the only one to have offered free entry - so far ! I was just putting forward an alternative suggestion for any future tournaments in case anyone decided to follow your lead. I didn't mean to only apply my idea to your competitions and that is why I wrote about ''an event'' rather than being specific to any one in particular. I am just trying to give a positive suggestion of how to give in-tournament training, which is what was asked for.
Last edited by Alan Burke on Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:35 pm

As mentioned many times, perhaps we should have another thread regarding the free entry as this is a thread about training.

Sean Hewitt

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Sean Hewitt » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:58 pm

Sabrina Chevannes wrote:As mentioned many times, perhaps we should have another thread regarding the free entry as this is a thread about training.
Sabrina - you're not telling someone off for being off topic are you? Pots and kettles ;-)

Alan Burke

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Alan Burke » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:24 am

Sean ... maybe the misperceived connection between your free entry offer and the in-tournament coaching was established in the very first post of the original thread on this subject ... and before anyone else thinks I am just having a go at Sabrina because I am going to be quoting her - No, I have no intention of doing that; I am again just trying to show why the written word can be interpreted in many different ways and sometimes lead to confusion over what the writer actually meant.

The comment made in that very first post was .." Since Sean Hewitt has kindly supported women's chess by offering free entry to his e2e4 events, myself and Jovanka will be working alongside his tournament by providing in-tournament training."

Therefore the word "SINCE ..." seems to indicate that the coaching was only occuring because Sean had offered free entries - and maybe would not have taken place unless such a gesture had been initiated.

If 'free entries' had not been mentioned in that post and perhaps just "As the ECF womens' organisers, myself and Jovanka will be providing in-tournament training at the next e2e4 tournament..." then no such connection would have been made between the two initiatives and no subsequent comments about free entries would have ever been made.

In fact, I may well have applauded such an initiative and actually taken issue with the equivalent ECF mens' organiser for not following their lead and providing such coaching for the males at the event.

LozCooper

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by LozCooper » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:17 am

Alan Burke wrote:Sean ... maybe the misperceived connection between your free entry offer and the in-tournament coaching was established in the very first post of the original thread on this subject ... and before anyone else thinks I am just having a go at Sabrina because I am going to be quoting her - No, I have no intention of doing that; I am again just trying to show why the written word can be interpreted in many different ways and sometimes lead to confusion over what the writer actually meant.

The comment made in that very first post was .." Since Sean Hewitt has kindly supported women's chess by offering free entry to his e2e4 events, myself and Jovanka will be working alongside his tournament by providing in-tournament training."

Therefore the word "SINCE ..." seems to indicate that the coaching was only occuring because Sean had offered free entries - and maybe would not have taken place unless such a gesture had been initiated.

If 'free entries' had not been mentioned in that post and perhaps just "As the ECF womens' organisers, myself and Jovanka will be providing in-tournament training at the next e2e4 tournament..." then no such connection would have been made between the two initiatives and no subsequent comments about free entries would have ever been made.

In fact, I may well have applauded such an initiative and actually taken issue with the equivalent ECF mens' organiser for not following their lead and providing such coaching for the males at the event.
I interpreted that as due to the fact that women are getting free entry it makes it far more affordable for them to contribute towards coaching and there will be more of them playing.

The equivalent ECF mens' organiser would be the Manager of Coaching.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:29 am

Alan Burke wrote: Therefore the word "SINCE ..." seems to indicate that the coaching was only occuring because Sean had offered free entries - and maybe would not have taken place unless such a gesture had been initiated.
If you had missed Sean's original announcement regarding free entry, you might have supposed the initiatives were directly connected. Sean clarified this many, many pages ago.

I read the offer as saying that for little more than the normal cost of entering a tournament anywhere, you could play at Denham and get coaching as well.
Alan Burke wrote: In fact, I may well have applauded such an initiative and actually taken issue with the equivalent ECF mens' organiser for not following their lead and providing such coaching for the males at the event.
True and perhaps an enterprising organiser and coaches will get together and offer in-tournament training as a commercial service. At lower levels, they might run into what might be described as endemic amateurism, namely that even looking up openings before or after the game is some form of seeking advice from third parties and therefore forbidden.

Alan Burke

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Alan Burke » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:26 pm

Roger ... Yes, I had not previously seen any other announcement about Sean's free entry offer, so, as you say, anyone reading that very first post in the other thread could easily assume there was a connection. I was just suggesting that the actual mention of free entries in that post is a possible reason why it has become a part of this discussion instead of just the coaching.

Loz .. Yes, it possibly could also be interpreted in that way, but this all shows how the same written sentance can mean something entirely different to various readers and why people sometimes just want clarification and are not trying to just be negative about the subject at hand.

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:36 pm

Yes I put since, because since Sean had offered it previously, nothing to do with myself and jovanka but sean trying to do what he can for women's chess (i think this idea came about in october first when we originally got the post).

Loz is correct in thinking we chose this tournament to do the training in because we wanted the costs to be kept down as much as possible. Even though after speaking to the women who attended this weekend, they all said they would be prepared to pay an entry fee AND training fee as they thought it was extreely worthwhile, we thought that not everyone would be prepared to do this.

Therefore once we heard Sean was making his tournament free entry to females, we thought this was an opportunity to run the training at his event. I will be getting more feedback from everyone hopefully to find out what can be improved for the future.

True and perhaps an enterprising organiser and coaches will get together and offer in-tournament training as a commercial service. At lower levels, they might run into what might be described as endemic amateurism, namely that even looking up openings before or after the game is some form of seeking advice from third parties and therefore forbidden.
I had no idea this was a form of cheating??? Before the game? I mean this is just like a parent teaching a child - they still have to retain it in the game. Do expand more Roger!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:51 pm

Sabrina Chevannes wrote: I had no idea this was a form of cheating??? Before the game? I mean this is just like a parent teaching a child - they still have to retain it in the game. Do expand more Roger!
I was of course being ironic. It is close to the attitude you see on some turn based servers about analysing openings and typical positions with a computer engine.

You do encounter players though who seem to show little or no interest in improving. It's a very long-standing attitude, John Saunders unearthed an old letter by Vera Menchik back in the 1940s where she compared the British attitude to chess training to that of the Soviet Union.

Even to this day there's a denial in some quarters that terminating games between moves 30 and 42 by adjudication leads to poor play in end games.

It would be typical of players in an Open that they would try to find out what they could about their opponent before they started play. It would be equally typical of players in a Minor that they didn't. Some would be so disinterested that they don't even bother to establish and record their opponent's name.

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Gareth Harley-Yeo
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Gareth Harley-Yeo » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:04 pm

Loz, when's the big slick 2 planned?

LozCooper

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by LozCooper » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:16 pm

Gareth Harley-Yeo wrote:Loz, when's the big slick 2 planned?
25th June - 3rd July. Two all-play-alls and hopefully some weekend events still to be decided.

Alan Burke

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Alan Burke » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:56 pm

Sabrina .. would you therefore agree that it is just a misinterpretation of the written word ? Obviously SINCE could have meant either "At a later time than Sean's offer ..." (which wouldn't link the two initiatives) or alternatively could have meant "Because of Sean's offer ..." (which would seem to link them together).

Sabrina Chevannes
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Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Sabrina Chevannes » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:36 pm

It does mean because of Sean's offer. However, what we are saying is that we did not decide this together. Sean is the organiser of his events and it is his sole decision as to how his events are run. It is because of this offer we thought to run the training at these tournaments in order to cut down costs for those wanting training. I don't really see the confusion and not sure why it has been dragged out as Sean has already clarified it a few times.

Sean Hewitt

Re: Women's In-Tournament Training II

Post by Sean Hewitt » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:38 pm

Mon dieu!

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