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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Paul McKeown wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:
When was it reduced to 16?


BCF either 1987-88 or 1988-89, SCCU sometime between 1995-96 and 1999-2000. I'll try to narrow it down for you.


SCCU reduced to 16 boards in the 1996/7 season. I thought I vaguely recalled it being in the middle of my time at university (1994-98), but had to check the SCCU archives to be sure. The reduction can be seen both in the match results, and mentioned at the SCCU Executive meeting.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:41 am 
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Roger de Coverly wrote:
[Buckinghamshire] had reached the final of the Minor Counties the year before, losing to Herts. The only previous entries had been in 1983 losing in the Minor Counties final to Sussex and winning in 1981 against Devon 2. So with just four outings in over thirty years, there's no expectation of playing summer County chess.


Indeed. I recall playing in the 1981 Minor Counties Final, as will Roger. The 1981/82 BCF Yearbook (page 55) records it as such, being played in Bristol on 14 June 1981, with Bucks beating Devon II 12-4, and all the board scores given.

And yet every BCF/ECF Yearbook I have from 1997 onwards (I don't seem to have any between 1982 and 1997) fails to record this fact, starting the Minor Counties roll of honour from 1982. Is there any reason why it has been expunged from the record? If it was just an oversight, can it be restored?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:08 am 
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John Saunders wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
[Buckinghamshire] had reached the final of the Minor Counties the year before, losing to Herts. The only previous entries had been in 1983 losing in the Minor Counties final to Sussex and winning in 1981 against Devon 2. So with just four outings in over thirty years, there's no expectation of playing summer County chess.

Indeed. I recall playing in the 1981 Minor Counties Final, as will Roger. The 1981/82 BCF Yearbook (page 55) records it as such, being played in Bristol on 14 June 1981, with Bucks beating Devon II 12-4, and all the board scores given.

And yet every BCF/ECF Yearbook I have from 1997 onwards (I don't seem to have any between 1982 and 1997) fails to record this fact, starting the Minor Counties roll of honour from 1982. Is there any reason why it has been expunged from the record? If it was just an oversight, can it be restored?

How curious.

Buckinghamshire's 1981 victory is shown on the online record at http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=16611, which would tend to support the cock-up theory.

However, conspiracy theorists will note the identity of the losing finalists, Devon 2. My memory of the competition goes back to 1985 and then, as now, only county first teams could take part.

So possibly the 1981 competition was experimental in nature, with the first "proper" competition in 1982 and the earlier one struck from the Yearbook records.

Over to Alex H to investigate as appropriate.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:50 am 
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David Sedgwick wrote:
John Saunders wrote:
Roger de Coverly wrote:
[Buckinghamshire] had reached the final of the Minor Counties the year before, losing to Herts. The only previous entries had been in 1983 losing in the Minor Counties final to Sussex and winning in 1981 against Devon 2. So with just four outings in over thirty years, there's no expectation of playing summer County chess.

Indeed. I recall playing in the 1981 Minor Counties Final, as will Roger. The 1981/82 BCF Yearbook (page 55) records it as such, being played in Bristol on 14 June 1981, with Bucks beating Devon II 12-4, and all the board scores given.

And yet every BCF/ECF Yearbook I have from 1997 onwards (I don't seem to have any between 1982 and 1997) fails to record this fact, starting the Minor Counties roll of honour from 1982. Is there any reason why it has been expunged from the record? If it was just an oversight, can it be restored?

How curious.

Buckinghamshire's 1981 victory is shown on the online record at http://www.englishchess.org.uk/?page_id=16611, which would tend to support the cock-up theory.

However, conspiracy theorists will note the identity of the losing finalists, Devon 2. My memory of the competition goes back to 1985 and then, as now, only county first teams could take part.

So possibly the 1981 competition was experimental in nature, with the first "proper" competition in 1982 and the earlier one struck from the Yearbook records.

Over to Alex H to investigate as appropriate.


My source of information was the ECF Yearbook from 2010, which listed the information shown there. I remember someone on this Forum mentioning 1981, so I added it. I didn't see any winners prior to 1981 if someone published them.

I'm quite happy to add previous winners to this list if people tell me who they were!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:37 am 
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try this link

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3894&p=81203&hilit=minor+counties#p81203 which shows the winners of a competition starting in 1973.

In its original form, the Minor Counties looks to have been a second teams competition. Actually it was probably more subtle than than, a competition restricted to teams not in the top division of the Union events. For most of the 1970s the SCCU ran parallel regional divisions, it was only when they briefly changed to a split where "minor" county first teams played against "major" county second teams, that it was possible for a first team to win the Minor Counties.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:55 am 
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Roger de Coverly wrote:
try this link

viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3894&p=81203&hilit=minor+counties#p81203 which shows the winners of a competition starting in 1973.

In its original form, the Minor Counties looks to have been a second teams competition. Actually it was probably more subtle than than, a competition restricted to teams not in the top division of the Union events. For most of the 1970s the SCCU ran parallel regional divisions, it was only when they briefly changed to a split where "minor" county first teams played against "major" county second teams, that it was possible for a first team to win the Minor Counties.


OK, I missed that.

If someone can e-mail this to me so that I don't forget about it while I'm in North Shields...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:21 am 
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I am obliged to those who took the trouble to follow this up. I've a vague recollection of this being a new competition, or at least one in which county first teams were making their debut, as David suggests.

I even have a (not very good) photo I took of the two match captains, Rowena Bruce and Alex Niedzwiedzki, after the match, with Alex holding the trophy...

Image

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