Counties Finals...latest scores

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
David Pardoe
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Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by David Pardoe » Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:39 pm

Anyone know who`se winning so far in the counties finals.
I dont suppose they`re using those new digital clocks?
Talking of which....how widely are these new high tech gadgets being used these days....leagues, clubs, congresses, other events.
And whats the best model on the market (and best prices...) + anything new in the Digital clock line coming on the market shortly...?
Or should we stick with the old analogue technology..??
BRING BACK THE BCF

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:06 pm

County finals: I had a call this morning from a Warwickshire U100 player who didn't know where the final was. I told him it was more prudent to phone the actual captain of the team, rather than me, given I was at a junior club at the time...

Digital clocks: Best model is the DGT 2010. £50 each if you buy 6 or more from a particular London-based chess supplier. I doubt anything new is coming along with massive improvements rendering your DGT 2010s useless; DGT are no Apple.

In Birmingham, Sutton Coldfield is the only club with six digital chess clocks. I raised purchasing some at my club's AGM, but with uncertainty over our venue, we decided against it for the time being. Aston University will own six of their own when I collar the relevant executive at our Guild of Students.

I plan to use them at the BUCA Individual, held in Blackpool (and all future BUCA events). One of the criticisms I received from several overseas players was that they didn't like analogue clocks. They're obviously used in the e2e4 events and 4NCL (which have a reputation as the best congresses and league in this country), and the British Championship, and probably the London Chess Classic. I think that shows what the rest of us should be aspiring to.

The advantage of digital clocks is that you can use incremental time easily (maybe the future of leagues?), and with incremental time, you can avoid 10.2 claims. This makes life easier for arbiters everywhere.

Sean Hewitt

Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:19 pm

I'm pretty sure they used digital clocks in the national finals last year, and I would expect the same this year.

In Leicestershire, every Div1 club has digital clocks now. Not because they have to, simply because they are far superior. Leicestershire Chess Association owns a further 16 clocks which are used for county matches and the congress etc.

Ian Thompson
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:44 pm

Of the 80 competitive games I've played in the last year, I think all but 4 were played with digital clocks - 3 county matches and 1 club match (where the club has digital clocks, but not enough for all the matches being played on the night). 59 of those games were played using Fischer time controls. I would regard it as unusual not to use a digital clock now.

Daniel Young
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Daniel Young » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:49 pm

My club has about a dozen DGT 2000 clocks, but for inter-club matches we only use analogues! The digital clocks are virtually un-used save for friendly games between younger players (and that's relative - I'm the only junior!) My school has 6 Saitek Game Timers - these are far inferior, but we do use them for school league games. The rather cold reception they receive from many at school is perhaps best reflected in this astonishing statement from a friend: "I prefer the analogues, because there's an element of skill in guessing when the flag's going to fall!"

Ian Thompson
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:38 pm

Daniel Young wrote:My club has about a dozen DGT 2000 clocks, but for inter-club matches we only use analogues!
I'm guessing from your location that you play in the Surrey League. That league is, I hope, unique in allowing players to insist on the use of a clock made in 19th Century in preference to a modern digital clock.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Roger de Coverly » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:17 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:Digital clocks: Best model is the DGT 2010.
Well perhaps. They do however suffer from a design flaw which stems from cost cutting back in 1993. The design flaw is that they only have a 4 digit display, so they can only show hh:mm or mm:ss. As we all know they switch display at 20 minutes before a time expiry (which is fair enough) and switch back at 00:00 if the add-on is at least 20 minutes. The switch back at 00:00 can be really annoying and lead to disputes about whether the time control has been reached. The same issue applies to Saiteks as raised recently by Alec M.

The reason for the 4 character design was stated as being that 4 character LCDs were cheaper at the time than 5 character ones.

I've played abroad using the USCF GameTimer which I don't think is available in the UK. This uses either h:mm:ss or mmm:ss throughout without the switch of display at 20 minutes.

For 5 minute chess, the touch sensitive Chronos clocks are amazing - they thwart those annoying people who insist on banging the clock lever with captured pieces.

(edit) Having found the manual by Google, the clock displays H:MM in "large" and :ss in "small". With 10 minutes remaining, it switches to M:SS in "large". The seconds are always displayed (unless you switch them off). This means the players can check that the increment has been correctly added (which you can't do directly with a DGT at the start of the game).
Last edited by Roger de Coverly on Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:42 pm

Roger de Coverly wrote: For 5 minute chess, the touch sensitive Chronos clocks are amazing - they thwart those annoying people who insist on banging the clock lever with captured pieces.
Yeah, those people are annoying... :oops:

Ian Kingston
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Ian Kingston » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:26 pm

A couple of results:

U180: Warwickshire 9-7 Nottinghamshire
U140: Hampshire 8-8 Nottinghamshire (Hants win on board count)

Digital clocks were indeed used.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:46 pm

U100: Warwickshire 1.5-10.5 Essex

The aforementioned Under 100 who wasn't sure where the venue was this morning was quite annoyed. He managed to draw to someone who was estimated at 99 (how convenient), but who said that he "will be graded over 130 next season".

Alexander Hardwick
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Alexander Hardwick » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:55 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:U100: Warwickshire 1.5-10.5 Essex

The aforementioned Under 100 who wasn't sure where the venue was this morning was quite annoyed. He managed to draw to someone who was estimated at 99 (how convenient), but who said that he "will be graded over 130 next season".
This 99-estimated person sounds suspiciously like the guy I lost to in the SCCU Essex vs Surrey U100 match. I kinda wish he'd told me (and the Essex captain, and the SCCU organisers, etc.) that little nugget of information. Logically he'd wait until the end of the tournament :wink: .

Daniel Young
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Daniel Young » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:13 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
Daniel Young wrote:My club has about a dozen DGT 2000 clocks, but for inter-club matches we only use analogues!
I'm guessing from your location that you play in the Surrey League. That league is, I hope, unique in allowing players to insist on the use of a clock made in 19th Century in preference to a modern digital clock.
Your guess is correct. I've never seen it enforced, except for in the schools league - where the other school had conveniently enough brought their own clocks to an away match and promptly used them!

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:17 pm

Ian Thompson wrote: I'm guessing from your location that you play in the Surrey League. That league is, I hope, unique in allowing players to insist on the use of a clock made in 19th Century in preference to a modern digital clock.
Out of interest, what was the rationale for this rule?

Ian Thompson
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Ian Thompson » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:21 pm

Alexander Hardwick wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:U100: Warwickshire 1.5-10.5 Essex

The aforementioned Under 100 who wasn't sure where the venue was this morning was quite annoyed. He managed to draw to someone who was estimated at 99 (how convenient), but who said that he "will be graded over 130 next season".
This 99-estimated person sounds suspiciously like the guy I lost to in the SCCU Essex vs Surrey U100 match. I kinda wish he'd told me (and the Essex captain, and the SCCU organisers, etc.) that little nugget of information. Logically he'd wait until the end of the tournament :wink: .
The player who played in the Essex-Surrey match (http://www.sccu.ndo.co.uk/match6.htm) looks like he ought to have a published rapidplay grade of 108 - there are two players of the same name in the grading list, with the same DoB, and both from Essex clubs. When merged they would result in a published grade of 108. Rapidplay grades don't count for SCCU eligibility, so that, in itself, wouldn't disqualify him from playing in an U100 match. However, I assume it would make if difficult to convince the county match controller that the player was clearly under 100 strength standard play.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Counties Finals...latest scores

Post by Alex Holowczak » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:28 pm

It is indeed that player who was played today. Also, tell Richard that he needs some semi-colons after that "&nbsp" in the Surrey-Essex game...

I'm not sure there's a penalty worth enforcing here, given Warwickshire were royally thumped.