John Reyes wrote:Alan Walton wrote:Lets all calm down here; everybody involved with chess in the UK are volunteers, so we don't need I volunteer more than others comments
The arguement here is that Mick is voted in as the voice of Manchester Chess by the AGM, all his comments and views are voted by the clubs of Manchester, therefore these are the official views of Manchester chess scene; if individuals differ from this it is up to them to discuss with their club and put these across in a diplomatic manner through the AGM or Council.
So David until you are in an official capacity with the MCF you views are totally personal, and by the looks of it are contradictory to the views of all the clubs in the Manchester league who vote at the AGM, note I believe that Heywood (and others) don't participate at AGMs but that is their choice
here here!!!
as Urmston has just had there AGM, they have raised a few points to bring to the MCF and Lancashire AGM, so hope that people on both sides get behind this as there some people in Urmston that wanted to play county chess for lancashire but there some that wanted to play for Greater Manchester!!
Good to see Urmston getting involved...after 40 years..
Alan,
I understand your points...and I think that one issue is that we`re all talking at cross purposes to some extent..
You need to go back through this thread and read from where Mike Truran was talking about the County Competitions being in dire straights, particularly the `top` Open, Minor Counties, and U180 sections, due to lack of support. And he asked `what might be done..`..
He also said I should step forward and volunteer to help sort things out..
So, I`ve put forward my ideas...
Then, in steps Andrew and others, saying `how dare I interfere with my long winded posts....telling everyone what to do....??
Things have developed from there ...to the point where Andrew seems to think that only current `ECF big wigs` and other `important officianadoes`, should be allowed to comment on these forums.
And you endorsing this by saying things like `I should get my clubs` backing and re-join the MCF Council` if I want to have my views listened to...??
This forum is a public forum where anyone and everyone is entitled to express there views.
Its not for ECF or other Officianadoes to strut there stuff, lording it over the rest of us.. saying that `they know best` and everyone else should `shut up and listen`.?
Is it any wonder, with this brow beating arrogance, that many ordinary players steer well clear, and refuse to join in the discussions..
Incidentally, I`ve done my stint on the MCF Council... made my contributions.. reported back to my club, etc.. And dealt first hand with some very dubious politics..
And I`ve seen the apathy.... such is the mad society our politicians have created.
No, I`m not advocating BREXIT... that would be a disaster, which might lead to the break up of the entire EU project, and maybe even the UK itself.
It too, desperately needs REFORM.... If that doesnt work, say in 5 – 10 years time. then maybe we arrange a controlled break up.
Back to the main point..
I`m afraid you are guilty, like many others, of flying flags of convenience.
On the one hand you issue the threat that 3Cs will not get involved with county chess, unless we re-join the NCCU..
But you also say that Dale (from 3Cs), ran the Gman county team about 10 years ago, when 3Cs were very active in the MCCU Counties competitions.
Then you said that 3Cs quit and decided to focus instead on 4NCL competitions.
So it doesn't really sound like 3Cs would come back, even if we did re-join the NCCU... and actively support the MCF teams?
But the other telling argument you put is about travel.. Its far easier for North Manchester clubs and 3Cs to make very short trips to Heywood and Halifax to play Lancs and Yorks, than to travel down the M6, to play MCCU teams.
I can see that point.. but its just not what these County events are about...in my view.
I`ve said that the NCCU has become one vast chess counties exclusion zone.. Everyone side-lined as the `big two` slog it out.
That's not what these county events are supposed to be about.
I support the MCCU because they run fully inclusive county events on all levels... and many of there counties qualify for the National Finals stages. There officials have rolled up there sleeves and ensured these excellent `big team` events are given a good airing, producing loads of excellent 16 board matches.... and more importantly, some good camaraderie and valuable match play experience for many players, at all levels.
Its not been easy by any means..but top marks to these guys for meeting all the challenges.
One other point is, that the MCCU have made great strides to try to improve the travel issues in these events, once I`d joined the MCCU AGMs and started campaigning for change.
Yes, that was not easy, but now our county venues and locations are much better than back in 2004 – 6. But travel and venues are issues that all counties across the country face. Its not easy... and certainly if you want 4* venues, you probably need to pay 4* prices... and we all know that many players don't want to spend money.
However, our main venue at Newcastle-U-Lyme is one of the best around, I believe.
But the other problem with your idea of joining the NCCU, .....just so we (i.e., some North Manchester clubs), can have some easy trips across the Yorks border to play county chess.??
What happens when we qualify for the National stages...and find ourselves having to travel further afield.. to Leicester, South Birmingham, and Worcester.
Will all those players who wont travel further than the Cheshire borders to play chess, suddenly just jump ship... This is a nightmare for county captains and is exactly what happened one year.. and Manchester suffered the ludicrous humiliation of having reached the Finals Stages, then having to default a match at late notice. What a shambles..?
I as now speaking as a former MCF county captain, who has put in hours of effort to try to raise teams, only to have this happen.
This is why I`m asking Manchester to think very carefully about all this.
Now to some other big issues..
Yes, your right that the MCF were mandated to try for entry to the NCCU..
And Micks efforts on this have been very good indeed.
But we really do need a deal that is in the best interests oi those who will actually be playing, not a bunch of apathetic armchair spectators, who really couldn`t care less what is agreed.
I am particularly keen to see that we do not accept a deal that leaves us still being treated as second class citizens, with Lancs allowed to crawl all over our county, poaching players and even clubs, as the opportunity comes.. We`ve seen this before...
Merseyside are part of the NCCU with no strings attached by Lancs, yet they still don't want any part of the NCCU county competitions..
So, my message to the MCF is to think carefully..very carefully, about what is on offer, and what the best choices might be.
There are no perfect answers, because different people want different things...
If we are to re-join the NCCU, we need a deal that is at least on a par with that offered to Merseyside.
It might be that we could consider joining BOTH the MCCU and the NCCU, and maybe continue our county U160 team in the MCCU events, and try out our Open team in the NCCU events, and see how things pan out for a few years.