Finals day 2 July

Discussion about all aspects of the ECF County Championships.
Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:36 pm

If the final decision has been made on any appeal, there seems no legitimate reason to hide the facts of the dispute. We don't need to know who dealt with any appeal or what they said in making their decision.

But if you try to keep all of it secret, more and more fanciful ideas will be published.

Neil Graham
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Neil Graham » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:39 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:If the final decision has been made on any appeal, there seems no legitimate reason to hide the facts of the dispute. We don't need to know who dealt with any appeal or what they said in making their decision.

But if you try to keep all of it secret, more and more fanciful ideas will be published.


Alex said here:-

I am not publishing the verdict of the Appeals Committee. So far as I am concerned, the information has been distributed to those involved, and if they want to bring it into the public domain, that's up to them. To the best of my recollection, I haven't published other disputes/appeals in the recent past, and I don't see why this one is so different.

Mick Norris
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Mick Norris » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:42 pm

Andrew Zigmond wrote:
Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
Andrew Z, are you allowed to say whether the presence of a neutral arbiter at the match would likely have helped?


In this instance I think it would have done, yes.


I think what most of us would want to know is whether there are lessons to be learned, to avoid the same thing happening to us in future

For example, when should we arrange for a neutral arbiter to be present?

I have played with a neutral arbiter present on occasions, but that's because Cyril (RIP) was there in another capacity
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Roger de Coverly » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:43 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:But if you try to keep all of it secret, more and more fanciful ideas will be published.


Members of the Surrey team on the day may have been asked to keep their silence whilst the Surrey Board is still trying to protest, but are they intending to be silent indefinitely?

Graham Borrowdale
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Graham Borrowdale » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:49 pm

Five pages and counting...
There does seem to be a tendency for some to get wound up in the minutiae of these disputes. If you need to win a match by disputing a result, or by upholding a dispute, then I reckon a fair amount of the gloss has gone from the victory. :(
To be honest, I would be more interested to see the moves of some of the games being played. Then have an inquest into how your board 1 might have won that game which they only managed to draw. :idea:
The chess is forgotten; the disputes are not.
Good luck to all those playing on Finals Day

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Kevin Thurlow » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:53 pm

"Members of the Surrey team on the day may have been asked to keep their silence whilst the Surrey Board is still trying to protest, but are they intending to be silent indefinitely?"

I doubt it. Unless a Surrey player did something awful, like exposing himself or breaking wind loudly.

Thanks Neil

And thanks Mick - "I think what most of us would want to know is whether there are lessons to be learned, to avoid the same thing happening to us in future"

That was the point I was trying to make.

True, Graham - 5 pages of wondering what happened might turn into 100 pages of outrage, or two posts of "oh is that all?"

John Reyes
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby John Reyes » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:58 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:I am not publishing the verdict of the Appeals Committee. So far as I am concerned, the information has been distributed to those involved, and if they want to bring it into the public domain, that's up to them. To the best of my recollection, I haven't published other disputes/appeals in the recent past, and I don't see why this one is so different.

By the way. I think there have been about 7 or 8 disputes requiring appeals in the last 5 years (two so far this season), and it is by far the most disputatious competition I'm involved in the organisation of. John Reyes seems to suggest there is another one on its way. There are good, reasonable people captaining teams in the County Championship, and I don't understand why there should be so many appeals and disputes every year.



nope this is not one coming but I do remember that this was published

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... ruling.pdf
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Mick Norris
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Mick Norris » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:04 pm

John Reyes wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:I am not publishing the verdict of the Appeals Committee. So far as I am concerned, the information has been distributed to those involved, and if they want to bring it into the public domain, that's up to them. To the best of my recollection, I haven't published other disputes/appeals in the recent past, and I don't see why this one is so different.

By the way. I think there have been about 7 or 8 disputes requiring appeals in the last 5 years (two so far this season), and it is by far the most disputatious competition I'm involved in the organisation of. John Reyes seems to suggest there is another one on its way. There are good, reasonable people captaining teams in the County Championship, and I don't understand why there should be so many appeals and disputes every year.



nope this is not one coming but I do remember that this was published

http://www.englishchess.org.uk/wp-conte ... ruling.pdf


Another Lancs dispute :shock: although not by their actual captain
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NickFaulks
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby NickFaulks » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:22 pm

Mick Norris wrote:Another Lancs dispute :shock: although not by their actual captain

I suppose if you keep appealing everything, at some point you can expect to get lucky.

Mick Norris
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Mick Norris » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:41 pm

Missing the point as usual, I see you have never tried to arrange a match with Bill, he doesn't wait until the match starts for the games to begin
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NickFaulks
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby NickFaulks » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:58 pm

Mick Norris wrote:Missing the point as usual, I see you have never tried to arrange a match with Bill, he doesn't wait until the match starts for the games to begin

I've heard that, but it still doesn't make my point wrong.

edit : we did wonder how Derby was halfway between Surrey and Lancashire.

Mick Norris
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Mick Norris » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:08 pm

When we had a home match v Lancs a few years ago, we chose a venue and Bill refused it, so we had to play elsewhere in a crap venue

When we had an away match v Lancs a couple of years ago, Bill chose their usual venue (also crap) and then wanted us to pay half the costs because it was actually in Greater Manchester - he refused to use digital clocks too, all our other opponents said yes fine

Anyway, if it wasn't Surrey involved in this one, you wouldn't care
Last edited by Mick Norris on Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any postings on here represent my personal views and should not be taken as representative of the Manchester Chess Federation www.manchesterchess.co.uk

Neill Cooper
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Neill Cooper » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:47 pm

Mick Norris wrote:When we had a home match v Lancs a few years ago, we chose a venue and Bill refused it, so we had to play elsewhere in a crap venue

When we had an away match v Lancs a couple of years ago, Bill chose their usual venue (also crap) and then wanted us to pay half the costs because it was actually in Greater Manchester - he refused to use digital clocks too, all out other opponents said yes fine

This might explain where there there are so few inter-county matches in the NCCU

MartinCarpenter
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby MartinCarpenter » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:31 pm

Nah, that's just down to so few counties of any population size/huge travel. There have been some, ummmmm 'fun'?!, occurences with the Roses matches mind you. Fairly sure there was one Open one where the whole Yorkshire ended up an hour down on the clock somehow and some other random hassle.

Really no idea why they bother.

Neil Graham
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Re: Finals day 2 July

Postby Neil Graham » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:40 pm

2016 Finals:-

SCCU 7 (8)
MCCU 4 (2)
NCCU 2 (2)
EACU 1 (1)
WECU 0 (1)

2015 Finalists in brackets.

Last year there were 4 SCCU winners, 2 NCCU and 1 MCCU. This year there are two SCCU only clashes and 1 MCCU only meeting so the SCCU will do well to equal or exceed their 2015 totals.

As a reminder here are the running totals of titles for the last five years:- SCCU 19; MCCU 8; NCCU 5; EACU 2; WECU 2


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