Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

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Rob Thompson
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Rob Thompson » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:21 am

Try telling the occupy protesters that all the beatings, tear gas, pepper spray and rubber bullets they've had to endure are simply side-lining, ridiculing or ignoring. Go on - I dare you.
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John McKenna
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby John McKenna » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:50 am

Don't know about the 'occupy protesters'. But one day maybe you and they will realise you are living in a more sophisticated trap than the Arabs, Africans and Asians.
The 'markets' are more likely to bring down western governments than any small group of protesters.
In fact such protesters will be used as examples to others not to follow their "antisocial" behaviour.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Simon Bibby
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Simon Bibby » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:48 am

I am intrigued by those folk who lump together huge swathes of incredibly disparate peoples.
To pick just one, what is happening with Asians exactly? What is the trap? Really thought Edward Said had largely put paid to such.

John McKenna
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby John McKenna » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:59 am

Two things came to mind.
First, don't recall the police using rubber bullets on mainland Britain, only N. Ireland. Perhaps RT could give dates and places they were used.
Second, I have heard of the 'occupy protesters' - last time was at the weekend just gone when they were being ridiculed on LBC radio for an ineffective occupation that resulted in the arrest of about 8-10 of them I seem to remember.
Also St. Pauls protesters were labelled 'time wasters' on that station. Perhaps RT will ask how dare they?
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby John McKenna » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:07 am

And to S. Bibby - you are then obviously intrigued by successive UK govs. who have done such a lot of lumping together of large swathes of disparate peoples from around the world into the rump of their empire.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby John McKenna » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:13 am

Edward Said no more put an 'end to such' than he put an end to the Israel-Palestine problem. (Which by the way was created by whom lumping disparate people together in another small place?)
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Paul McKeown
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Paul McKeown » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:17 am

John McKenna wrote:You see that's precisely the new law in France regarding face coverings (including veils and burkahs) in public. Such a law could never happen in the UK because it's against European human rights.
That's the paradox of the UK's membership of the EU.


The European Convention on Human Rights and its institutions, the Council of Europe and the European Court of Human Rights, are entirely seperate from and independent of the European Union. The United Kingdom was actually its earliest and strongest proponent and it was largely drafted by David Maxwell-Fyfe (Conservative Home Secretary under Winston Churchill). It deals with issues of civil liberties, entered force in 1953 and currently has 47 member states.

That you conflate the ECHR and the EU doesn't lend much confidence in your general argument. If you could call it argument. Shouting disjointed bullcrap at random passers by would be a more accurate description, rather like the religious crazies who wander around the High Street wearing sandwich boards, declaiming that the end of the world is nigh.

Paul McKeown
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Paul McKeown » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:24 am

John McKenna wrote:First, don't recall the police using rubber bullets on mainland Britain, only N. Ireland. Perhaps RT could give dates and places they were used.



You are obviously not well informed, then. Baton rounds were first used in mainland Britain in 2002 in Dorchester.

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Rob Thompson
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Rob Thompson » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:28 am

John McKenna wrote:First, don't recall the police using rubber bullets on mainland Britain, only N. Ireland. Perhaps RT could give dates and places they were used.


I was referring to earlier this year in the USA. I don't know why you suddenly restricted to yourself to mainland Britain, having earlier referred to the US, the UK and the EU, but there you go. I'm guessing even a small amount of consistency is probably difficult for you.

EDIT: cleared up my earlier error. Again, apologies.
Last edited by Rob Thompson on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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John McKenna
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby John McKenna » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:26 pm

So Rob T. you were talking about the 'occupy protesters' in the US - thanks for clarifying that. And, the 'rubber bullets' were fired in a completely different situation in Dorchester, UK! Well forgive me if I can't put all that together for myself when you stretch a point to such extremes.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

John McKenna
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby John McKenna » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Profuse apologies to P. McKeown, inadvertantly spattered by my bullcrap as he randomly passed by.
However, his legal sophistry regarding the EU & European Court of Human Rights is stock media bullcrap, now doing the rounds.
Most people simply do not distinguish between the two as they share the word 'European'.
As, for the claims of ownership of the European ideals, well, it's propaganda to say it's all down to our own great leader Winston C. who at the same time was also trying to perpetuate the empire.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)

Paul McKeown
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Paul McKeown » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:58 pm

Whatever.

Your comparison of the United Kingdom to North Korea under Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il or Albania under Enver Hoxha is just pathetic rubbish.

People from North Korea would give everything for the chance to flee their country to live here in the UK. North Korea has depended on foreign food aid for most of the past two decades, following years of famine in which as many as two million are reported to have starved to death. To state these facts, though, would have been seen an implicit criticism of the leader, and would have been certain to lead to death or imprisonment.

Your blinkered inability to engage with reality and your hyperbolic comparisons of the difficulties associated with economic correction in a wealthy democracy with tyranny and personality cult is a gross insult to the millions of victims of North Korea's state terror.

You really have nothing to say that is worth reading, just nonsensical raving.

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Matt Mackenzie
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Matt Mackenzie » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:04 pm

I genuinely despise the present UK government - but still don't have the foggiest what the thread starter is on about :?: :? :)
"Set up your attacks so that when the fire is out, it isn't out!" (H N Pillsbury)

Paul McKeown
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby Paul McKeown » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:07 pm

Matt - well quite. In the UK you can have an passionate belief in politics that differ radically from those of the government of the day, but no one is going to harm you for it.

John McKenna
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Re: Kim Jong Il (1942?-2011)

Postby John McKenna » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:15 pm

S. Bibby (Dec 20 08:48) >... what is happening to the Asians exactly?<
Generally they are on the up, but the N. Koreans are down due to passing of their 'Dear Leader' - the only communist head of state to succeed a parent.
China is spending a large proportion of its huge GDP on its military and pushing for the US & EU to allow it access to advanced technology.
Meanwhile, they are claiming the lion's share of the South China sea to the consternation of smaller nations surrounding it.
To find a for(u)m that accommodates the mess, that is the task of the artist now. (Samuel Beckett)


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