Why is Joey Barton such a c*ck?

[John McKenna]

I put it down to the influence of Joey Barton. Now if this were the Joey Tribbiani thread, hey presto, everyone would be friends.

[Carl Hibbard]

Alex H .. I did not make the quote you have attributed to me a few posts above - or am I just being pedantic about that ?

That was a quote that should have been an edit. I've asked the Mods to roll it back if they can. If not, I'll delete the post.

I have removed the mistaken post along with at least one other silly name calling post

[Sean Hewitt]

Sean Hewitt ... Please read what I actually wrote and why I wrote it before saying it is nonsense. I did not say referees were shy from making correct decisions; I was replying to a comment from a previous post which stated that referees did not wish to take a risk in sending off an innocent player - to which I replied that by taking that risk they probably would not get the backing of the authorities.

Alan Burke... Please do not be so presumptuous as to believe that I did not read what you wrote. I did read it so you are wroong on that point. You were also wrong on the substantive point. I am a referee who has operated at a pretty decent level. I have also worked for The FA. I know of what I speak.

[Alan Burke]

Sean Hewitt ... maybe you have therefore interpreted my previous post incorrectly. Ian Kingston had written "Sending off an innocent party is a bad idea, which is why referees tend not to take the risk" to which I replied "One of the reasons why football referees "won't take the risk" with decisions is that they probably won't get the backing from the authorities."

Is it therefore not correct that the referees would not get the backing of the authorities if they sent off an innocent player ?

If you are a football referee, do you not envy rugby officials who can and do send off a player for showing dissent ? If so, do you not think the football authorities are not backing their referees in allowing them to do that ? However, if the rules do allow football referees to send off such players, why is the rule very rarely applied when you see players constantly argue with the official and in a very aggressive manner ?

[Alex Holowczak]

However, if the rules do allow football referees to send off such players, why is the rule very rarely applied when you see players constantly argue with the official and in a very aggressive manner ?

Bravely, I decided to look the rules up, and provide them for reference (see pages 36 and 37): http://ar.fifa.com/mm/document/affedera ... 11_12e.pdf

Part of the problem, I suspect, is that if officials start sending people off for arguing with the referees, the game would be called off fairly soon because the match would be lost by default through not having enough players on the pitch. You want the game to be played, so you don't want to keep sending people off. In the same way, you don't want to keep defaulting people in chess because the players have the temerity to agree a draw between themselves.

[Sean Hewitt]

Is it therefore not correct that the referees would not get the backing of the authorities if they sent off an innocent player ?

Of course they wouldn't get backing in such a situation. If they've got it wrong, that has to be put right. It would be Ostrich syndrome to back the referee in such circumstances.

maybe you have therefore interpreted my previous post incorrectly. Ian Kingston had written "Sending off an innocent party is a bad idea, which is why referees tend not to take the risk" to which I replied "One of the reasons why football referees "won't take the risk" with decisions is that they probably won't get the backing from the authorities."

I've interpreted your post in the way that you have written it, and what you have written is wrong. Referees will not get the backing of the authorities if they send off an innocent player, but that is not why they don't send players off if there is a doubt about the players guilt. You are entirely wrong to portray a causal link.

If you are a football referee, do you not envy rugby officials who can and do send off a player for showing dissent ?

No. The laws of football are quite sensible in this regard, and allow referees to use their discretion when dealing with dissent. Dissent is a cautionable offence whilst using offensive, insulting or abusive language is an offence punishable by dismissal.

However, if the rules do allow football referees to send off such players, why is the rule very rarely applied when you see players constantly argue with the official and in a very aggressive manner ?

I don't believe that players 'constantly' argue with officials, nor am I aware of any data that supports such an assertion. Perhaps you meant to use the word 'sometimes'? If so, I woudl agree with that as there is no denying that dissent is a problem in football just as it is in other sports. The FA is at pains to address these problems, particulalry in youth football, but the problem is nowhere near the scale you portray. At least, not in my experience at all levels of the game - and I've officiated junior football, sunday morning parks football, non-league semi professional, the Conference and even on the Football League. :-p

[Sean Hewitt]

However, if the rules do allow football referees to send off such players, why is the rule very rarely applied when you see players constantly argue with the official and in a very aggressive manner ?

Bravely, I decided to look the rules up, and provide them for reference (see pages 36 and 37): http://ar.fifa.com/mm/document/affedera ... 11_12e.pdf

You mean you looked up the laws?

Regards,

A. Pedant

[Alex Holowczak]

However, if the rules do allow football referees to send off such players, why is the rule very rarely applied when you see players constantly argue with the official and in a very aggressive manner ?

Bravely, I decided to look the rules up, and provide them for reference (see pages 36 and 37): http://ar.fifa.com/mm/document/affedera ... 11_12e.pdf

You mean you looked up the laws?

Regards,

A. Pedant

[Alistair Campbell]

The goalkeeper was Ruy Lopez. And the other bloke was Bernardo Dominguez Fernandez who invented the chess opening, the Dumfermline Defence

Close - but I unfortunately I have to deduct points for spelling

By the way, there is no such thing as the Dunfermline Defence - I should know, I looked for it on 38 separate occasions last season...

[Alan Burke]

Alex H, you say "Part of the problem, I suspect, is that if officials start sending people off for arguing with the referees, the game would be called off fairly soon because the match would be lost by default through not having enough players on the pitch."

Does that mean the referees should therefore have to put up with that amount of dissent just for the sake of continuing the game ?

All the above posts are very good in attempting to justify the way the laws are applied in football, but a question that needs to be answered is why the amount of dissent shown by players to the referees in games of football is certainly not matched by those who compete in many other sports (ie rugby, cricket, etc) ?

Sean Hewitt says that "dissent is a problem in football just as it is in other sports." However, when was the last time anyone saw a group of rugby players angrily run towards the referee after a decision went against them ? In contrast a penalty decision at football is quite often followed by such actions.

[Paul Cooksey]

12 game ban for Joey. I doubt he will act any differently when he returns.

[David Robertson]

Bit like people banned from here.

You prigs!

[David Robertson]

Fan hits s**t?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-me ... e-18321310

[Paul McKeown]

severe punishment

£75K fine + another £500K fine + 12 weeks suspension + loss of captaincy + final warning (next offence - immediate dismissal)

Seems about right.

[Paul McKeown]

http://bit.ly/jODhEm

gives the whole affair - linesman had a mare with his "two yellows"! Love the following comments: "how the f**k is he still standing? i would go down from a slap by tuilagi" and "It was a bad decision? You tell Tuilagi that.."