Totalitarianism (split from School Computers thread)

[John McKenna]

The only 'society' more totalitarian than ours is the United States of America. We are so totalitarian we don't even know it. The modern utilitarianism of Jeremy Bentham and the Mills has been monopolised by the establishment and used for nefarious purposes. It is so in the chess world as well as in the rest of the world.

[IM Jack Rudd]

The only 'society' more totalitarian than ours is the United States of America. We are so totalitarian we don't even know it.

Really? Under what possible definition of "totalitarian" can this be true?

[John McKenna]

Sorry Jack, haven't got time to go into detail right now BUT please think about the root of the word in question and this aspect of its definition - relating to, or constituting the whole; entire... THEN ask yourself who has the power in today's world? It's totalitarianism, Jack, but not as we traditionally know it.

[IM Jack Rudd]

Sorry Jack, haven't got time to go into detail right now BUT please think about the root of the word in question and this aspect of its definition - relating to, or constituting the whole; entire... THEN ask yourself who has the power in today's world? It's totalitarianism, Jack, but not as we traditionally know it.

I asked for a definition, not a piece of weaselling which hints at what your definition might be without actually committing yourself to it.

[John McKenna]

There you go again shooting from the lip. When I have time I will commit (speaking of which - do you know what commitments are Jack?) Have patience.

[John McKenna]

Here is my answer then - the United States of America and the United Kingdom are the two states in the world today that are least likely to have their system of government changed by their people. The reason for this is that their people are the most powerless and controlled on Earth. The means of control is to give the illusion of power to the people while retaining real control in the hands of a self-perpetuating establishment - if you want any real power you have to join it but places are strictly limited. Note that in theory anyone is supposed to be able to join - just as in theory anyone is supposed to be able to win the lottery. The US & UK 'societies' operate on that principle - we are all players but there is only a strictly limited number of possible winners. (And, you play by their rules the golden rule being - if you don't play you can't win.) Things are much clearer in a traditional 'totalitarian' society - you know who the enemy is. I am sure you have seen the Matrix - a seemingly human society but maintained by machines for their own end. Well, it's already started, the machines have not taken over, and perhaps they never will, but they are serving their human masters (I don't mean you and me) very well already and those masters have their own ends. Their ends (despite what they say) do not include handing any form of real power to the common people but to control all people by converting or subverting every nation on Earth to 'free-market' capitalism. That creed first arose here and created the British Empire, which was destroyed by its successor - the United States of America. But, rest assured they will not rest until every last vestige of socialism and real freedom is eradicated from the world. That's what I call real totalitarianism.

[Rob Thompson]

Whilst I could accept that the USA is totalitarian, and there is certainly an argument for extending this to the UK, saying that they/we are the most totalitarian state is ridiculous.

[Greg Breed]

...and did you know that all the most powerful people in the world are actually lizards in human clothes?...

[John McKenna]

In reply to the two posts immediately above -

Rob, as I wrote - the USA is a consequence of the British Empire and the UK is its rump and a microcosm of imperialism and colonialism in the form of multiracialism and multiculturalism. In many respects we're worse than the US because 'we' were their daddy. Finally, I'd like to suggest that almost every traditionally totalitarian state that has existed in the last two centuries did so as a consequence of the actions of American or British or French or Spanish Imperialism (edit: how could I omit the Germans, Japanese and Russians?). Check out the history of the explicit dictatorships and you will find the hand of the implicit ones.

Greg, I do not subscribe to the theories of Ike but understand why you mention them. I do subscribe to the theory of evolution. We mammals were the brothers of the reptiles (check out synapsids and diapsids) in that sense we are all almost lizards in clothes.

[Greg Breed]

Just for the record John I meant no offence although my tongue was firmly in my cheek. I have the David Icke book and i got about 1/3 of the way through. He makes interesting points (in a conspiracy theorist way), but sadly starts waffling and I lost interest. I may try returning to it in a dozen years or so...

[John McKenna]

No offence taken Greg.
The problem with Ike is that his theories are ultimately just about himself.
My problem on here is I'm emoticonically illiterate and probably an emoticonoclast at heart.

[Greg Breed]

No offence taken Greg.
The problem with Ike is that his theories are ultimately just about himself.
My problem on here is I'm emoticonically illiterate and probably an emoticonoclast at heart.

There you go, everything that is on the left of your screen as you type a new post

[John McKenna]

Thanks Greg. Trouble is I'm blinkered by having to focus on the input area and the submit button so intensely that I simp ly miss what is around. Is there an Emoticoniad that explains the history and full meaning of those little devils? (I have noticed on occaision some messages that consisted of just a combination of emoticons. Obviously they were expressing a range of emotions that could only be fully appreciated by the illuminati.)

[Ray Sayers]

M: Ah. I'd like to have an argument, please.
R: Certainly sir. Have you been here before?
M: No, I haven't, this is my first time.
R: I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
M: Well, what is the cost?
R: Well, It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten.
M: Well, I think it would be best if I perhaps started off with just the one and then see how it goes.
R: Fine. Well, I'll see who's free at the moment.
Pause
R: Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.
Ahh yes, Try Mr. Barnard; room 12.
M: Thank you.

[John McKenna]

Interesting Ray, I recognise that trying-to-start-an-argument scenario, I think. However, there is no argument here - Jack asked a perfectly valid question, I gave my answer, Rob and Greg commented and I responded. I'm happy to leave it at that. Any suggestions for an emoticon here

BTW, in response to N. Korea's recent nuclear test basketball diplomacy has begun -

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=18594940

Apologies for the previous dud link. News moves so fast these days.

Broken news - Persian Zips on Fire off the Shoulder of Michelle: Iran launches cultural counterstroke on the US 1st Lady's dress.