Postal Votes in our elections

[John McKenna]

Thanks for your comments, Rob, I am pondering my reply to the specifics.
Meanwhile, all I can offer is this -
"The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and declared aims... All issues are political (Mao echoed this - JM.) and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia..."
Do you recognise the world descibed? I don't really know your aims here - you may be an idealist - but I have a feeling you may see the world in a different light. For example, touching on one specific point above, why do you think dual nationality is not allowed by a number of countries? It may not be an issue for you but it obviously is for them. (Edit: I think I already stated my objection to it in one word - inequitable.

[Rob Thompson]

Thanks for your comments, Rob, I am pondering my reply to the specifics.
Meanwhile, all I can offer is this -
"The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and declared aims... All issues are political (Mao echoed this - JM.) and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia..."
Do you recognise the world described? I don't really know your aims here - you may be an idealist - but I have a feeling you may see the world in a different light. For example, touching on one specific point above, why do you think dual nationality is not allowed by a number of countries? It may not be an issue for you but it obviously is for them. (Edit: I think I already stated my objection to it in one word - inequitable.

I don't know what description of the world you've made that I'm supposed to be recognising, which makes it hard to answer your question. I suspect that dual nationality is not allowed by a number of countries more as tradition than it being an issue for them.

[John McKenna]

Hi Rob, apologies for the delay. I'll answer your last question first - the world described in the (Orwell) quote is one in which everything is over politicised (i.e. culture, economics, education, finance, law, military, media, religion, policing, sports, etc.) but the state of world politics itself is degenerate and parlous. Do you see the world that way or is it more relaxed, and its politics just naff?

I like your answer to my nationalities question because it makes things clearer - yes, some countries are more 'traditional' (allowing only one nationality) ... And, some are more 'progressive' (allowing dual nationality), so it is with people - I believe that I am speaking from a traditional realist standpoint and you are taking a progressive idealist one.

Let's see...

Do you know the film Dr. Strangelove or - How I Learned to Love the Bomb? Well, I've tried to avoid becoming someone like deranged Brigadier-Gen. Jack Ripper in your eyes, as that would turn you into something like Group-Capt. Lionel Mandrake in mine. So, let's not go there - we'd both look like fools. Please consider me to be more of a buffoon, like 'Bucky' (General Buck Turgidson) talking to a friend of the son of President Muffley -

What I sense here is that "we have a gap". I am talking about a generation gap that leads to a perception gap that leads to a comprehension gap and, before you can say Jack Ripper... sorry Jack Robinson, a communication gap!

Because, above, I say something as plain as the nose on your face: illegal immigration should not be rewarded with citizenship, and you say - Citation needed.

I say something else and you say - Do you have any idea how the US treats immigrants?
Yes I do - been to NY, Boston, Washington, San Francisco, Vegas, Phoenix & L.A. and points between by Greyhound buses. The US is a COUNTRY of immigrants (apart from the Redman who arrived as a true nomad) and it has always treated them sublimely or ridiculously depending on how much wealth they brought with them.

Then you quote me some more and say - Well this seems like a non-sequitur.
Well, it may seem like one to you but not to me. But, I can guess why it seems like that for you though - could it be that you think all borders should be abolished forthwith?

You go on - it is largely because of us that many commonwealth countries have problems...
Rob, it is not because of 'us' it is mainly because of past governments of the Empire and their successor governments in the Commonwealth and other such nations after independence. Are we responsible for the sins of our fathers? (Actually, don't think mine were in on it much.)

You added - The wealthy are to a large degree all in it together (we agree!), but this is a completely separate issue to either immigration or foreign aid.
I strongly disagree, these issues are connected. The wealthy of the world and their political allies use aid as a carrot and immigration as a stick. The 'aid' carrot is fed to the governments of the poor world to keep them sweet (a little juice trickles down to the their people) and the immigration stick is wielded in the rich world to beat down wages and raise productivity. (When I was a student I worked in a factory one summer - heavy manual labour - many of the permanent workers were W. Indians. Pay was low but they worked hard, all the time. Next summer I worked on the ground staff of a sports ground with old country boys. The pay was worse but it was better than being in that factory - one summer was enough for me and some new recruits walked out after just a few hours.)

So, I get the impression you are trying to teach another strange love - how to love all our fellow human beings, simultaneously. Your way would seem to involve cutting out all the crap and going straight for it. That was tried at the end of the Roman Republic and resulted in the Roman Empire then the Catholic Church, the colonialist-imperialist states of Europe and two world wars. These are similar times to the decline of Rome (that began when men like Caesar, Crassus and Pompey became so rich and powerful the Emperors were born). I don't think we are going to reach the promised land this time round, either. It may well take three attempts and another thousand years, at least. Barring a miracle that is.

Before I can learn to love my fellow humans I first have to learn to live with them and the hardest to live with currently are financiers & politicians.

Bye.

[Peter D Williams]

This appears to be going off topic.

Keep warm everyone drink plenty of hot drinks