The English Language

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soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:57 pm

Are the underlined used as adjectives?
A considerable amount of data on the Kwakiutl, Tsimshian, Haida, Bella Coola, and other potlatches could be used to generate more holistic interpretations

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: The English Language

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:32 am

They're either nouns, or adjectives-used-as-nouns (in the latter case, they would be modifiers to "potlatches").

John McKenna

Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:41 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:Are the underlined used as adjectives?
A considerable amount of data on the Kwakiutl, Tsimshian, Haida, Bella Coola, and other potlatches could be used to generate more holistic interpretations
E.g. the Haida potlach, perhaps

Note that we usually say in English the feast of Eid, not the Eid feast - although the latter is quite acceptable.

Alistair Campbell wrote:
John McKenna wrote: it is French and means payment to a feudal superior.
I've never heard the word prestation before (and the spell-checker doesn't like it)... I[SNIP]
A word that never quite made it into English from Norman French - probably because 'prestation' was not popular with the peasants.

Here's a 'feudal terminology' -

http://home.olemiss.edu/~tjray/medieval/feudal.htm

Note that 'entry fee' is included!

I like 'banalities' - a word which still exists in English (noun: banality, adjective: banal) but with a somewhat different meaning.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:40 pm

What does it mean that
the name is an institution or the soul of a corporation that exists forever

John McKenna

Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:55 am

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What does it mean that
the name is an institution or the soul of a corporation that exists forever
"... the name is an institution or the soul of a corporation that exists forever."

Above is a direct quote from The Tsimshian: Images of the Past, Views for the Present by Margaret Seguin - a Canadian anthropologist.

The exact meaning of the above is difficult to ascertain even when the anthropological context and the rest of the sentence is known because the words 'institution' and 'corporation' do not have their usual business English meaning and instead partake of a social science English meaning.

That dichotomy is reflected in the dictionary entries for the words 'corporation' & 'institute', i.e. -

corporation (noun) - a municipal authority of a city/town, or a 'body' (group) made up of more than one person

institute (noun) - an organisation, e.g. an educational institute such as The Princeton Institute for Advanced Studies

institute (transitive verb) - to initiate, inaugurate, establish or originate

The whole sentence from which the quote was taken is given below and should be read and understood light of what is written above -

"This is the Tsimshian idiom for the transfer of names: a person is given to the name, not the reverse, the name is an institution or the soul of a corporation that exists forever."

My layman's understanding of it - since I am not an anthropologist, or even a social scientist - is that the native American Tsimshian people of what is now known as British Columbia in Canada have a ritual feast (potlach) at which a member (or members) of a tribe is ceremonially initiated (instituted) by being assigned to a name that is both sacred and eternal to the tribe (corporation).

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:49 pm

What does 'finally' mean in:
The work of Goldman (1975), Walens (1981), and Seguin (1984, 1985) has finally addressed the issue of the symbolism of the potlatch gifts.
?

Ian Thompson
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Re: The English Language

Post by Ian Thompson » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:58 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:What does 'finally' mean in:
The work of Goldman (1975), Walens (1981), and Seguin (1984, 1985) has finally addressed the issue of the symbolism of the potlatch gifts.
?
It means they've written a paper (or similar) on the subject after a long time of it not being addressed by anyone.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: The English Language

Post by Barry Sandercock » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:00 pm

Finally, in this context means "at last ".

John McKenna

Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:41 pm

Combining Ian's and Barry's answers - it could be said to mean "at long last".

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:42 pm

What does object mean in:
Thus death has a specific meaning for the social consciousness; it is the object of a collective representation.

Barry Sandercock
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Re: The English Language

Post by Barry Sandercock » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:12 pm

An object is something that may be perceived by the senses. ( " Object" is not an easy word to define. )

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:10 pm

What's the difference between
This conception of death, and this particular pattern of events which constitute death and which follow it, are so familiar to us that we can hardly imagine that they are not necessary.
and
This conception of death, and this particular pattern of events which constitute death and which follow it, are so familiar to us that we can hardly imagine that they may not be necessary.

soheil_hooshdaran
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Re: The English Language

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:13 pm

Barry Sandercock wrote:An object is something that may be perceived by the senses. ( " Object" is not an easy word to define. )
Means place?

MartinCarpenter
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Re: The English Language

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:03 pm

You're translating tough stuff now :)

Those two statements obviously hinge on the are/may not. The statement with are in it is asserting that death is *not* necessary, the other one is merely hinting that it might not be so.

John McKenna

Re: The English Language

Post by John McKenna » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:27 pm

Martin, I agree with what you say, above, but where you have written 'death' I'd say it's shorthand for - "death , and this particular pattern of events which constitute death and which follow it". John
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:
Barry Sandercock wrote:An object is something that may be perceived by the senses. ( " Object" is not an easy word to define. )
Means place?
Not really a 'place' (physical location), but a focus - a death becomes the centre (focus/'object') of spiritual attention and ritual activity in the group experiencing the loss of the deceased.

[Note, again, the context is that of the social sciences and some of the words used may have somewhat different - but not unconnected - meanings to their meaning in everyday English.]