Word Wars

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
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MJMcCready
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Word Wars

Post by MJMcCready » Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:47 pm

I found an interesting documentary on tournament Scrabble, called word wars here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjS0Xdzrlc

There are many parallels with chess, its quite enjoyable.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:08 pm

MJMcCready wrote:I found an interesting documentary on tournament Scrabble, called word wars here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjS0Xdzrlc

There are many parallels with chess, its quite enjoyable.

Superb. I had a quick look to see if it was one I’d seen. It wasn’t ... but I got caught for 20 mins. Couldn’t stop watching. I’ll have to come back to this later.

Thanks for the link.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Paul Habershon » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:40 pm

MJMcCready wrote:I found an interesting documentary on tournament Scrabble, called word wars here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjS0Xdzrlc

There are many parallels with chess, its quite enjoyable.
Mark, thanks from me too for the link. It brought to life the book by Stefan Fatsis (Word Freak?) which I was lent a couple of years ago.

Last year I entered the Luton one-day Scrabble tournament out of interest. As I did not have a rating I was put in the second division of three (I had told the organisers that I usually scored 300+). I lost 6 games and won 1. Although I know all the 2-letter words I was constantly misguessing 3-letter ones which regular tournament players probably see as trivial knowledge. Whenever I challenged a 3-letter word I was usually wrong. I mostly scored well over 300 but often narrowly lost. As with chess, it needs huge amounts of study to become a top player. At least familiarity with chess time limits meant I wasn't spooked by having to play all my moves in 25 minutes.

A month ago I entered it again and found my rightful place in Division 3. I won 4 and lost 3. My rating went up from 95 t0 97! This looks like the equivalent of about 110 at chess. See http://www.absp.org.uk/results/141126x.shtml. In the first round I played the bonus word SENTENCE and was amazed when it was challenged by my opponent, a lady of mature years. 'Thought it may be spelt with an A,' she said. She then went on to beat me and eventually won Division 3! There were about 20 players in each division, so 60 or so in the whole tournament. It's run on the Swiss pairing system.

In 'The Times' the recent World Scrabble Championship got much more prominent coverage than the Carlsen-Anand chess. I suppose a word game is more accessible to the public at large. However, it attracted a lot of cynical criticism about the weird allowable words. (The Times had shown a large diagram of a completed board in the final). Those critics simply do not understand the necessity of the Official Scrabble Dictionary. How can you possibly have a rule which tries to define the level of obscurity allowed in one's Scrabble vocabulary? My advice to home/social players is to get a copy of the OSD (actually the word lists are no doubt available online as well) because a conventional dictionary is hopeless at resolving arguments, especially when there is a dispute about pluralisation, e.g. can you add S to WHY?

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MJMcCready
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Re: Word Wars

Post by MJMcCready » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:34 pm

Hi Paul, yes one of the difficulties if you study scrabble and play with people who don't is the 'that can't be a word' objection. Though in truth many of the words beginning with Q, not followed by a u, are so exotic it is understandable.

I think what I took from this documentary was that we in chess might complain about conditions and lack of money and so on, but compared to the likes of draughts, scrabble, Othello and so on, we're pretty well off.

Nice to hear that Luton has retained some cultural activity, as I am sure you may have heard, the chess club is on the verge of folding, and this from a town that had its own league in the 70's, as I am sure you remember.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:39 pm

Paul Habershon wrote:... I played the bonus word SENTENCE and was amazed when it was challenged by my opponent, a lady of mature years. 'Thought it may be spelt with an A,' she said. She then went on to beat me and eventually won Division 3!
Is there a penalty for making a false claim in tournament scrabble?

I saw one documentary a while back that suggested there are quite a few tournament players for whom English is not their first language. They showed one case of somebody challenging a really basic word (can’t remember what it was, but it was as uncontroversial as something like 'bacon') but correctly allowing many very long and obscure words.

It seems not really speaking the language is far from necessarily an impediment in scrabble.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Word Wars

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:25 pm

The official Scrabble rules - if the last box I looked at is correct - give no penalty for making a false claim. So the optimal strategy is just to challenge word after word after word.

I suggest one not try this in a friendly game.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Alex Holowczak » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:37 pm

Jonathan Bryant wrote:I saw one documentary a while back that suggested there are quite a few tournament players for whom English is not their first language. They showed one case of somebody challenging a really basic word (can’t remember what it was, but it was as uncontroversial as something like 'bacon') but correctly allowing many very long and obscure words.
I saw the same documentary. The chap in question was from Thailand. The documentary explained that the game had support within the Thai government, because they wanted to encourage the use of the English language throughout the country. This was a noble aim, I suppose, but if words are being learnt by rote, rather than learning the underlying language, then Scrabble expertise doesn't seem to be meeting that aim.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:49 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote: I saw the same documentary. The chap in question was from Thailand.
Ah. Frankly it’s pretty much all the same to me once you get beyond the M25.


Even at my (every so casual) level, it’s pretty clear that actually knowing the meaning of words is not necessarily helpful.

I’ve heard - in one of the documentaries I assume but I can’t remember - that Scrabble is essentially about maths rather than language. Not sure I fully understand that point, but perhaps a mathematician could help out.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Word Wars

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:00 pm

There's a lot of "is the number of points I would gain for playing these letters worth the loss of these letters from my hand?" in Scrabble. (The usual rule of thumb is that the letters of RETAINS should be kept, other letters should be played - of course, if you can do something great like a seven-letter clearance, you do it.)

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Christopher Kreuzer
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Christopher Kreuzer » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:03 pm

Do you need to be able to calculate letter frequencies (in terms of the available letters) as well? Similar to 'counting' cards in card games? Actually, I mean 'counting' letters, don't I. Not letter frequencies. i.e. working out what letters are still left to draw from the pool and factoring that into your calculations.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Roger de Coverly » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:15 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Do you need to be able to calculate letter frequencies (in terms of the available letters) as well? Similar to 'counting' cards in card games? Actually, I mean 'counting' letters, don't I. Not letter frequencies. i.e. working out what letters are still left to draw from the pool and factoring that into your calculations.
It's a open board with a pre-determined number of tiles for each letter. You might suppose experienced Scrabble players know the relative chances with just a glance at the board. It was Paul Habershon who noted that competitive Scrabble is played at rapidplay pace.

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MJMcCready
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Re: Word Wars

Post by MJMcCready » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:06 pm

My favourite word in scrabble is 'oo', a Scottish variant for the word 'wool'.

Jonathan Bryant
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Jonathan Bryant » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:36 pm

IM Jack Rudd wrote:There's a lot of "is the number of points I would gain for playing these letters worth the loss of these letters from my hand?" in Scrabble. (The usual rule of thumb is that the letters of RETAINS should be kept, other letters should be played - of course, if you can do something great like a seven-letter clearance, you do it.)
Thanks for the RETAINS tip, Jack. I fell Scrabble excellence coming on.

I kind of got the probabilities/tile counting thing. I had previously assumed that the top players kept track of which letters were on the board in their heads. In the documentary, though, I see they are allowed to keep track of which letters have been drawn. That seems rather alien to me - a bit like note keeping in chess.

My favourite scrabble word, btw, is Qi. I forget what it means, but I do recall it’s an alternative spelling of something.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Paul Habershon » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:47 pm

As Jonathan posted (while I was drafting the following), a Scrabble score sheet has all 100 tiles printed at the side and tournament players usually cross off letters as they are played (tile tracking). They then know what is on the opponent's rack in the endgame, which is often a key strategic moment when you can block his possible plays.
I did not bother with this in my two tournaments because I was losing so much time anyway in calculating my score. You cannot stop your clock until you have placed your tiles AND announced your score. Some players successfully pressured me by responding immediately and re-starting my clock.

Current rules seem to be that there is no penalty for a wrong challenge. Even top players apparently often risk a word, so the advice is always to challenge if you are unsure. As a tournament novice I found this awkward - nobody wants to seem a fool. I did challenge one woman's NAOI, but it is allowable. I did not challenge SWINGED (bonus word) and spent the rest of the tournament wishing I had. Fortunately I found out afterwards that it is OK.

I'm not sure the game is mathematical. Apart from a feel for board strategy, e.g. making best use of the premium squares, and rack balancing, I think the prime skill is memorising word lists. Not needing to know definitions means that players without English as a first language can be very successful. You can find lists for almost any aspect of the game: vowel dumps (EUOI is a good one), consonant dumps GYPPY, JQXZ words (especially Q not needing U), fertile anagram sets (like RETAINS mentioned above), words which can take front 'hooks' (G)RUMBLE or end hooks PAYS(D) - no, that's not a typo! It's the Spenserian word for POISED.

I'm playing too much chess and bridge to try a Scrabble club, especially as there isn't one in my town. I've got a PC game for practice of course. The Mentor facility lists highest scores and recommended plays (often different). My sister in Houston has about twenty games against friends running simultaneously on her smartphone. With quite a leisurely time limit, I imagine.

Paul Habershon
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Re: Word Wars

Post by Paul Habershon » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:33 pm

Scrabble programme tonight Tuesday 9th December 11.05 p.m. BBC1. A repeat - not sure if I've seen it before.