What would you do?

A section to discuss matters not related to Chess in particular.
soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:20 am

Ian Thompson wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:The originally proposed contract demanded a one-off payment. As it was much for me, I aked for a reduced price and he suggested the royalty.
And yes, I published the book and then sent the contract. I hoped that everything would be resolved because he said so in his email. but 2 or 3 of my friend say 300 copies is not publishing
I can understand why Everyman are not very interested when the number of books, and therefore income for them, is so low, and its probably a lot more work for them dealing with you, as a foreigner, than it would be dealing with a book being published in the UK. (I remember reading a long time ago that a typical chess book in the UK would be expected to sell about 2000 copies.)
That's what the guy also hinted at: It too much email, for such a little money.
Why would he think I might sell extremely low quantities?
I have not yet published the books in great numbers just because I assume I have not yet been allowed to publish the book.
I might well publish the book in great numbers (2000+ copies) if allowed.
In fact, I have told the Everyman guy (prior to the publication of course) that this book will sell 4000 copies.
Some other Iranian translator told me that his translations sell for 1000 copies over 1-2 years.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:26 am

So do you guys think I might be able to get thje permission if I can publish & sell more copies?

Alistair Campbell
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:53 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by Alistair Campbell » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:34 pm

Ian Thompson wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:The originally proposed contract demanded a one-off payment. As it was much for me, I aked for a reduced price and he suggested the royalty.
And yes, I published the book and then sent the contract. I hoped that everything would be resolved because he said so in his email. but 2 or 3 of my friend say 300 copies is not publishing
I can understand why Everyman are not very interested when the number of books, and therefore income for them, is so low, and its probably a lot more work for them dealing with you, as a foreigner, than it would be dealing with a book being published in the UK. (I remember reading a long time ago that a typical chess book in the UK would be expected to sell about 2000 copies.)
I read somewhere that most books sell fewer than 300 copies (but presumably that statistic includes a lot of vanity-published fiction).

How many copies of a chess book would one expect to sell in Iran? I guess there is a slightly bigger population, but maybe less chess played per head? Perhaps less disposable income to spend on luxuries like chess books? But then perhaps there is less competition between authors and perhaps someone like GM Seirawan is popular?

I'd had in mind the 2,000 figure for the UK market as well - on that basis it is hard to see how publishing makes much money - (how much profit would you make - 20% of the cover price??) but presumably it does. Given that, I guess 4,000 copies in Iran might be possible, the carrots being that there's a series of books that you could sell and it may be (for all I know, which is approximately zero, about Iran and/or publishing) a market ripe for expansion. Of course the low price might make it uneconomic.
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:So do you guys think I might be able to get the permission if I can publish & sell more copies?
Several idioms (is that the word?), some contradictory, spring to mind. One is putting the cart before the horse; another is flogging a dead horse; a third (since we are on an equine theme) is about leading a horse to water... Then we have "throwing good money after bad" or "you might as well be hung (hanged, surely?) for a sheep as a lamb".

I'm not sure how much the royalties were (and assume they were in sterling). I guess that there is an amount below which it is not worth Everyman getting involved - they will have to set up accounting controls and open files and for all I know satisfy money laundering legislation.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:34 pm

Alistair Campbell wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:The originally proposed contract demanded a one-off payment. As it was much for me, I aked for a reduced price and he suggested the royalty.
And yes, I published the book and then sent the contract. I hoped that everything would be resolved because he said so in his email. but 2 or 3 of my friend say 300 copies is not publishing
I can understand why Everyman are not very interested when the number of books, and therefore income for them, is so low, and its probably a lot more work for them dealing with you, as a foreigner, than it would be dealing with a book being published in the UK. (I remember reading a long time ago that a typical chess book in the UK would be expected to sell about 2000 copies.)
I read somewhere that most books sell fewer than 300 copies (but presumably that statistic includes a lot of vanity-published fiction).

How many copies of a chess book would one expect to sell in Iran? I guess there is a slightly bigger population, but maybe less chess played per head? Perhaps less disposable income to spend on luxuries like chess books? But then perhaps there is less competition between authors and perhaps someone like GM Seirawan is popular?

I'd had in mind the 2,000 figure for the UK market as well - on that basis it is hard to see how publishing makes much money - (how much profit would you make - 20% of the cover price??) but presumably it does. Given that, I guess 4,000 copies in Iran might be possible, the carrots being that there's a series of books that you could sell and it may be (for all I know, which is approximately zero, about Iran and/or publishing) a market ripe for expansion. Of course the low price might make it uneconomic.
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:So do you guys think I might be able to get the permission if I can publish & sell more copies?
I didn't get you.
Do youseggest I continue to sell the books, in the hope of interesting EverymanChess?

Several idioms (is that the word?), some contradictory, spring to mind. One is putting the cart before the horse; another is flogging a dead horse; a third (since we are on an equine theme) is about leading a horse to water... Then we have "throwing good money after bad" or "you might as well be hung (hanged, surely?) for a sheep as a lamb".

I'm not sure how much the royalties were (and assume they were in sterling). I guess that there is an amount below which it is not worth Everyman getting involved - they will have to set up accounting controls and open files and for all I know satisfy money laundering legislation.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:45 pm

Alistair Campbell wrote:
Ian Thompson wrote:
soheil_hooshdaran wrote:The originally proposed contract demanded a one-off payment. As it was much for me, I aked for a reduced price and he suggested the royalty.
And yes, I published the book and then sent the contract. I hoped that everything would be resolved because he said so in his email. but 2 or 3 of my friend say 300 copies is not publishing
I can understand why Everyman are not very interested when the number of books, and therefore income for them, is so low, and its probably a lot more work for them dealing with you, as a foreigner, than it would be dealing with a book being published in the UK. (I remember reading a long time ago that a typical chess book in the UK would be expected to sell about 2000 copies.)
I read somewhere that most books sell fewer than 300 copies (but presumably that statistic includes a lot of vanity-published fiction).

How many copies of a chess book would one expect to sell in Iran? I guess there is a slightly bigger population, but maybe less chess played per head? Perhaps less disposable income to spend on luxuries like chess books? But then perhaps there is less competition between authors and perhaps someone like GM Seirawan is popular?
In fact, even IM Ghorbani, the guy who would answer my questions during the translation, had no great respect for GM Seirawan, as he has been retired for years and returned in 2012 when he didn't have great results. It was Just after mentioning his successes that he came to respect him, let alone lay people.
I sold 147 copies just in my city Shiraz and 2-3 other places and will sell more, because some school teachers loved it and force students to have it for a chess teaching program, be it an after-school program or a part of cariculum.
Regarding the sales, it is more the question of quality (both of text and translation) and that of time.The text is clear and interesting, as is typical of GM Seirawan, and the translation is pretty accurate, with the help of the forum members and the old (pre-Fischer) American master Aben Rudy and of course the Iranian ex-champion and professional coach, IM Ghorbani, not the least my own command of English language and years of chess experience, and hard work. Also GM Ghaemmaghami wrote a good intro on it. So I expect it to sell well. but it may take years to sell, and my translation of other books in the series, as one book is not gonna do much to chess knowledge of people and is incomplete.
Some people told me it is a text book and does not contain examples but other books in the series have more examples, to be taught is chess schools/clubs. A book suited for chess schools is expected to sell thousands in a few years.
But one problem is the people's access to free PDFs. That makes them somehow unwilling to pay for a translated work
I'd had in mind the 2,000 figure for the UK market as well - on that basis it is hard to see how publishing makes much money - (how much profit would you make - 20% of the cover price??) but presumably it does. Given that, I guess 4,000 copies in Iran might be possible, the carrots being that there's a series of books that you could sell and it may be (for all I know, which is approximately zero, about Iran and/or publishing) a market ripe for expansion. Of course the low price might make it uneconomic.
Several idioms (is that the word?), some contradictory, spring to mind. One is putting the cart before the horse; another is flogging a dead horse; a third (since we are on an equine theme) is about leading a horse to water... Then we have "throwing good money after bad" or "you might as well be hung (hanged, surely?) for a sheep as a lamb".

I'm not sure how much the royalties were (and assume they were in sterling). [/quote]
No, royalties were is dollars.
I guess that there is an amount below which it is not worth Everyman getting involved - they will have to set up accounting controls and open files and for all I know satisfy money laundering legislation.
Probably the case.
If only they would allow me to contact them.
I am willing to give them a reasonable up-front amount of money instead of paying them yearly a fee.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:43 am

Do you think, It may be that they show no interestasw they think the translation will not sell well?

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:53 am

So, I can offer the people at Everyman chess that I can publish trabslations for all seven books in the series, llest they thought it is this single book, and try to evangelize them, so that they sell morecopies like my friend who sold 2500 copies, over 5.5 years.
I called a friend of mine to ask him how my book compares to other books and he told me that I have not yet triede to see how the book sells.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:02 pm

I emailed Everymanchess again and a guy replied me back with:
"Im afraid that we only have the english language rights to thes books. "

What'd you make of it?

John McKenna

Re: What would you do?

Post by John McKenna » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:37 pm

That's progress - of a kind.

You could ask him, politely, if he knows from whom you can purchase the rights to translate the books in question into Farsi.

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue May 03, 2016 5:03 am

John McKenna wrote:That's progress - of a kind.

You could ask him, politely, if he knows from whom you can purchase the rights to translate the books in question into Farsi.
My immediate reply was
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 9:00 PM, Soheil Hooshdaran <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> So who can give me the permission to translate them?
>
> Yours
And he had not answered.
After I saw your comment and after round four of the tornament I wrote:
From: [email protected] سهيل هوشداران
To:
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:27:14 +0430
Subject: Re: Translating Winning Chess Series

Or rather, I should ask if you know who can I purchase the permission from

Sent from my iPhone

But got no reply as yet

John McKenna

Re: What would you do?

Post by John McKenna » Tue May 03, 2016 10:25 am

Then I can only suggest that you do the following -

After another week, if you still haven't heard anything, get your brother-in-law and sister to write a formal letter asking, politely, from whom the translation rights can be purchased. And, if you are really serious about it, enclose a cheque for £50 (or $75) stating that it is payment for their time and effort in dealing with the matter.

Post the letter to London and wait at least one month for a reply.

If you still haven't heard anything let me know.

(Do NOT send any more emails unless you receive an email from them!)

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Tue May 03, 2016 12:44 pm

John McKenna wrote:Then I can only suggest that you do the following -

After another week, if you still haven't heard anything, get your brother-in-law and sister to write a formal letter asking, politely, from whom the translation rights can be purchased. And, if you are really serious about it, enclose a cheque for £50 (or $75) stating that it is payment for their time and effort in dealing with the matter.
Wow!
75$ is the price of 20+ copies of the translations!
They are already sent some a cheque for the books....Do you this it is necessary? considering my sister and her husband live in USAand the postage itself will be a lot itself.

Alistair Campbell
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:53 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by Alistair Campbell » Tue May 03, 2016 2:21 pm

soheil_hooshdaran wrote:Wow!
75$ is the price of 20+ copies of the translations!
They are already sent some a cheque for the books....Do you this it is necessary? considering my sister and her husband live in USAand the postage itself will be a lot itself.
We might be approaching the nub of the problem. For every query they deal with they may have to sell 10 (a guess) books in the UK to make up for it. Possibly they have to sell 60 or 70 books in Iran.

I think Everyman discussed selling the rights for a lump sum - if you are quibbling over the cost of a stamp, can you blame them for pulling the plug?

soheil_hooshdaran
Posts: 3148
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: What would you do?

Post by soheil_hooshdaran » Wed May 04, 2016 5:22 am

I don't discusss the price of a stamp. But they said would send a cheque after 6 month from february , since the first cheque was not cashed as far as I know.

Andrew Bak
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:48 am
Location: Bradford

Re: What would you do?

Post by Andrew Bak » Wed May 04, 2016 9:35 am

I can't believe this thread is still alive...