Computer Go

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stevencarr

Re: Computer Go

Post by stevencarr » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:57 pm

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:Wow. Was still rooting for Lee Sedol. Sad that he didn't win one of the first three. Impressive by AlphaGo and Deep Mind.

Links for games 2 and 3:

https://online-go.com/demo/114754
https://online-go.com/review/115995

What do those who play go here think of the actual games themselves?

(Even some of the top professionals are finding it hard to understand some of the moves!)
I play Go, but I can't even pretend to understand the games of 9 Dan professionals.

Lee Seedol is a genius who turned professional when he was 12.

And he was beaten by a machine. Astonishing.

Just a few years ago, I used to slaughter computers at Go, even though I am rubbish.

'Many Faces of Go' only had a sad face playing me. The improvement since then is simply incredible.

Mick Norris
Posts: 10329
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Computer Go

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:09 pm

MartinCarpenter wrote:They will most definitely end up driving our cars :)
Bolton has had that facility for years now, although those driving the cars don't seem to bring them back :wink:
Any postings on here represent my personal views

John McKenna

Re: Computer Go

Post by John McKenna » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:49 pm

But, they don't usually try to take you with them, Mick.

Once the bots take control who knows where we'll end up.

Mick Norris
Posts: 10329
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Computer Go

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:56 pm

John McKenna wrote:But, they don't usually try to take you with them, Mick
Not been to Bolton then, John? :lol:
Any postings on here represent my personal views

John McKenna

Re: Computer Go

Post by John McKenna » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:22 pm

INot so far, Mick.

Though I think I noticed two southern gentlemen playing up there not long ago.

That said they could audition for bit parts in a NW (as opposed to NE) remake of Get Carter!

Mick Norris
Posts: 10329
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Computer Go

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:01 pm

John McKenna wrote:INot so far, Mick.

Though I think I noticed two southern gentlemen playing up there not long ago.

That said they could audition for bit parts in a NW (as opposed to NE) remake of Get Carter!
John

You'd be very welcome to visit - even better if you come with ideas for filming :lol:
Any postings on here represent my personal views

John McKenna

Re: Computer Go

Post by John McKenna » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:00 pm

Thanks for the invite, Mick.

I may have to go to Tokyo, first, to do a retake of The Yazukza -

http://www.japansociety.org/event_detail?eid=65d4bbba

Before they completely disappear -

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_new ... 1601280042

Here's how Go

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_new ... 1509250058

& Shogi

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_new ... 1407060005

are being taught in Japan.

Andrew Bak
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Location: Bradford
Contact:

Re: Computer Go

Post by Andrew Bak » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:04 am

Apparently Lee Sedol has a winning/much better position in Game 4. Let's see if he can convert.

Andrew Bak
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Re: Computer Go

Post by Andrew Bak » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:48 am

Lee Sedol did end up winning.

It was noticeable how AlphaGo realised it was in a losing position and started to play for tricks. This is completely the opposite approach to chess computers who will continue to play "objectively" the best moves even if this leads to positions that are easier to play for their opponent.

MartinCarpenter
Posts: 3044
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 10:58 am

Re: Computer Go

Post by MartinCarpenter » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:50 am

Up humanity :) Improves the odds they might want to come back in a few years I guess.

That 'playing for tricks' is probably coming from the monte carlo simulations - a big part of its evaluation routine is playing lots of games against itself to see how moves work out. Not at full strength for each of those moves of course! So if there's a choice of move which works in a percentage of those simulated games, and nothing that works consistently, it'll naturally tend to pick that.

Clive Blackburn

Re: Computer Go

Post by Clive Blackburn » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:06 am

AlphaGo went wrong and lost game 4, so Lee Se-dol has salvaged some respectability! :-D

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/13/11184 ... h-4-result

David Robertson

Re: Computer Go

Post by David Robertson » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:33 pm

Now winning one back - that's impressive!

John McKenna

Re: Computer Go

Post by John McKenna » Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:55 pm

As has already been said, Lee Sedol has been narrowing the gap in each game and getting to grips with me(n)tal monster.
AlphaGo created a big central area, which Lee Sedol cleverly found a way to take apart to make the game close. AlphaGo played some strange moves when it thought it was behind, seemingly to test Lee. However these lost the machine some points and, despite being in overtime, Lee played very accurately and eventually at about 08:45 GMT AlphaGo resigned. (British Go Assoc.)
http://www.britgo.org/node/5473

Mick Norris
Posts: 10329
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:12 am
Location: Bolton, Greater Manchester

Re: Computer Go

Post by Mick Norris » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:20 pm

David Robertson wrote:Now winning one back - that's impressive!
Did the computer go easy on him, now the match is won?
Any postings on here represent my personal views

John McKenna

Re: Computer Go

Post by John McKenna » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:36 pm

You can never be sure who is taking it easy - Lee may not have been that hungry to win the first game.

He said himself that in it he played an early (careless?) mistake that he never recovered from.

If he had won that first game the publicity would have almost certainly been diminished.

However, I don't believe he wanted to go straight to 0-3 down, either.

Had he got the score back to 1-2, in the machine's favour, then levelled the match at 2-2 that would have been perfect.

He was a little too cocky before the match and no doubt Alphago's strength has taken him by surprise.

To get one back is, as has been said, very impressive.

Let's see if he can win the last game and do the double.

Edit -

Here's the lowdown (on the background and first 3 games) from Chessbase -

http://en.chessbase.com/post/alphago-vs ... the-making

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