Proposal for the AGM

General discussions about grading.
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John Philpott
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Proposal for the AGM

Postby John Philpott » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:30 pm

I have notice of a grading-related agenda item for next month's AGM. The meeting will be asked to endorse a proposal from the Manager of Grading & Rating that the grading of overseas games be discontinued following the publication of the January 2013 grading list. Chris Majer is preparing a paper on the subject, which will be uploaded to the ECF website as soon as it is available (probably in a week's time).
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:11 pm

John Philpott wrote: The meeting will be asked to endorse a proposal from the Manager of Grading & Rating that the grading of overseas games be discontinued following the publication of the January 2013 grading list.


That was, perhaps still is, a key benefit when membership was voluntary.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Alex Holowczak » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:12 pm

John Philpott wrote:I have notice of a grading-related agenda item for next month's AGM. The meeting will be asked to endorse a proposal from the Manager of Grading & Rating that the grading of overseas games be discontinued following the publication of the January 2013 grading list. Chris Majer is preparing a paper on the subject, which will be uploaded to the ECF website as soon as it is available (probably in a week's time).


Excellent. I was going to write in my election "manifesto" that I thought this would be a good idea. Glad that the Manager of Grading agrees with me! :lol:

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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Sean Hewitt » Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:06 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:Excellent. I was going to write in my election "manifesto" that I thought this would be a good idea.
Why? What's the rationale?

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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Alex Holowczak » Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:52 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
Alex Holowczak wrote:Excellent. I was going to write in my election "manifesto" that I thought this would be a good idea.
Why? What's the rationale?


I think the ECF grading system should be for events that comply with ECF funding rules, and are held in the area covered by the ECF.

I'm not convinced that grading games in tournaments where a player plays only players who are ungraded (i.e. overseas players) improves the accuracy of the system. The players are treated as a conversion of their FIDE rating for this purpose. I assume the whole reason Chris is writing a paper is that he has some statistics to show that this hinders the accuracy of the system.

I was going to say that I wanted Chris to investigate whether or not this process helped or hindered the accuracy of the system. If he's writing a paper on it, I assume he's already done this research, and the conclusion he's reached is that it hinders.

Perhaps I should have waited until seeing his paper before declaring unilateral support for it though!

Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Roger de Coverly » Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:10 pm

Alex Holowczak wrote:I'm not convinced that grading games in tournaments where a player plays only players who are ungraded (i.e. overseas players) improves the accuracy of the system. The players are treated as a conversion of their FIDE rating for this purpose.


It's not necessarily about accuracy as the number of games involved is small. It is about offering a service to members wanting to have their international performances included with their domestic grade. This is a feature of both the Scots and Welsh systems. It's also a feature of some of the European systems. The chess-results.com service used for the Olympiad and other FIDE events doubles up as the data service for Austrian domestic rating. I found I was on it for one game played against an Austrian in Hastings, and the only Hastings results were the nine games played by the player in question.

You also have to consider the future of grading games played in Welsh congresses and Guernsey.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Kevin Thurlow » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:32 am

I play at Guernsey and have not wanted the games graded for the reason that they're played in a different Federation (and you play a lot of people with ratings that are dubious - I have a long list of games played against Dutchmen rated 1800!)

But a lot of the players there feel differently and got annoyed when the games weren't graded one year. I am definitely in the minority.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Roger de Coverly » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:26 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:But a lot of the players there feel differently and got annoyed when the games weren't graded one year. I am definitely in the minority.


Guernsey was graded last year, although they don't feature in the list of organisations with a vote on the ECF Council. One supposes that either they have a special status, aka secret deal, or it's done through some other organisation. Welsh events don't seem to be graded any more as part of ECF grading.

What is the position this year? I don't believe they impose any membership requirements on players who aren't GCI?

David Sedgwick
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby David Sedgwick » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:22 pm

Earlier this year Adam Raoof agreed that Guernsey could again be ECF graded.

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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Sean Hewitt » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:46 pm

David Sedgwick wrote:Earlier this year Adam Raoof agreed that Guernsey could again be ECF graded.

On what terms might we enquire? I ask because I asked if the e2e4 Dublin International could be graded. Adam, on this very forum, said no. It wasn't a big deal, but this seems like double standards.

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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Alex Holowczak » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:56 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:On what terms might we enquire?


I suppose you could enquire if you made him a cup of tea, or bought him a drink.

Don't worry, I'll see myself out. :D

Tim Spanton
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Tim Spanton » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:21 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:Earlier this year Adam Raoof agreed that Guernsey could again be ECF graded.

On what terms might we enquire? I ask because I asked if the e2e4 Dublin International could be graded. Adam, on this very forum, said no. It wasn't a big deal, but this seems like double standards.

Elizabeth II is Duke of Normandy but not Queen of Ireland

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby IM Jack Rudd » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:23 pm

Tim Spanton wrote:
Sean Hewitt wrote:
David Sedgwick wrote:Earlier this year Adam Raoof agreed that Guernsey could again be ECF graded.

On what terms might we enquire? I ask because I asked if the e2e4 Dublin International could be graded. Adam, on this very forum, said no. It wasn't a big deal, but this seems like double standards.

Elizabeth II is Duke of Normandy but not Queen of Ireland

Excellent. I look forward to our grading games played in Australia then. :lol:

Tim Spanton
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Re: Proposal for the AGM

Postby Tim Spanton » Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:29 pm

A long way to go for a seven-dayer


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