The new Monthly grades are out
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
My new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
A conversion using +600 would have resulted in 1898, which was around your end of year rating.Tim Spanton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pmMy new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
So seems consistent.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
Shouldn't the old gradings site have a link to the new one?
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
How dare you!Wadih Khoury wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:56 pmA conversion using +600 would have resulted in 1898, which was around your end of year rating.Tim Spanton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pmMy new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
So seems consistent.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
Well this is the problem with using 4 digit ratings. People expect them to give the same outcomes but there is no reason why they should. I have always been somewhat mystified as to the argument that this was a point in their favour.Tim Spanton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:40 pmMy new ECF rating is 1998. My Fide rating is 1813. I suspect a difference of 185 points is high for someone who plays a lot.
That ECF "conversions" didn't correlate to FIDE ratings wasn't an issue to nearly the same extent because people didn't routinely think of the two together.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
As anyone familiar with US chess can tell you, this confusion will be permanent.Richard Bates wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:33 pmWell this is the problem with using 4 digit ratings. People expect them to give the same outcomes but there is no reason why they should. I have always been somewhat mystified as to the argument that this was a point in their favour.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
And as those familiar with Scottish grades will tell you "No it won't." The problem there will be the lack of any relationship at the bottom end between the numbers used in both countries. (To the benefit of Scots playing in England and the detriment of English playing in Scotland.)NickFaulks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:47 pmAs anyone familiar with US chess can tell you, this confusion will be permanent.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
I actually wondered about Scotland when writing my comment. What I know is that the waters are certainly muddied in the States, so we shall see. USCF ratings are systemically higher than FIDE ratings, whereas the new ECF ratings are not supposed to be, but I am not sure whether that will be a help or a hindrance.Alex McFarlane wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:27 pmAnd as those familiar with Scottish grades will tell you "No it won't."
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
It probably helped that we had so few FIDE rated players at the time.
When there was a later push to increase the numbers with FIDE ratings there were some confused players but it didn't last.
When there was a later push to increase the numbers with FIDE ratings there were some confused players but it didn't last.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
The conversion was a tricky decision. We decided that status quo (7.5*grade+700=Elo) was the least unpalatable.
I did a short investigation following a post on this forum from Roger Lancaster. It was available on the ECF website till we went live. I don't see why it cannot be added here so I've attached it. .
There are arguments both ways, but I tend to be on the side of "ECF is not the same as FIDE, get used to the differences" but can understand others thinking differently.
Brian Valentine
Manager of ECF rating
I did a short investigation following a post on this forum from Roger Lancaster. It was available on the ECF website till we went live. I don't see why it cannot be added here so I've attached it. .
There are arguments both ways, but I tend to be on the side of "ECF is not the same as FIDE, get used to the differences" but can understand others thinking differently.
Brian Valentine
Manager of ECF rating
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
What is expected to happen over time? An Elo based method has scrapped the approach of treating juniors as new players every year. This used to have the effect of removing or reducing the problem of grades too low by dozens of ECF points and presumably helped drive discrepancies between FIDE ratings and ECF grades. I'm aware there were a couple of novelties proposed for the new system, one being to introduce a method which provided a floor for brand new players and the other being to award more points to juniors for winning than were taken away for losing. Did these make the final cut of the methods as implemented?Brian Valentine wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:49 amThere are arguments both ways, but I tend to be on the side of "ECF is not the same as FIDE, get used to the differences"
After three years of scoring 4/5 in the Kidlington U180, I've made myself ineligible again. A consequence is that perhaps like others, my ECF Elo is around 100 points higher than my FIDE Elo.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
Lots of information here - https://www.ecfrating.org.uk/v2/help/help_rating.php. They've even published the code, so you could check that as well if you wanted to.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:07 amI'm aware there were a couple of novelties proposed for the new system, one being to introduce a method which provided a floor for brand new players and the other being to award more points to juniors for winning than were taken away for losing. Did these make the final cut of the methods as implemented?
It explains your previous comment about your resurrected rapidplay rating. You'll retain that for 5 years from when you last played a game.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
The Help says the K factor for juniors will be 40 if their rating is going up and 20 if it is going down (presumably from one month to the next, not from one game or event to the next). Adults have a fixed K factor of 20.Roger de Coverly wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:07 amI'm aware there were a couple of novelties proposed for the new system, one being to introduce a method which provided a floor for brand new players and the other being to award more points to juniors for winning than were taken away for losing.
There's a proviso that K = 700 / No. of Games This Month if the number of games played exceeds 35. How, or if, that applies to juniors isn't stated.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
So a Snakes and Ladders effect. If over a measuring period, the actual score exceeds the expected score by 1, then the rating goes up 40 points. If over the next period it's the other way round, the rating reduces 20 points.Ian Thompson wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:45 amThe Help says the K factor for juniors will be 40 if their rating is going up and 20 if it is going down (presumably from one month to the next, not from one game or event to the next).
If the measuring period is the month rather than the event, there's a difference in treatment as to whether events are in the same month or not.
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Re: The new Monthly grades are out
"The Help says the K factor for juniors will be 40 if their rating is going up and 20 if it is going down (presumably from one month to the next, not from one game or event to the next)."
Interesting.
Interesting.