When is the new grading list coming out?

General discussions about ratings.
Mike Gunn
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Re: the grade changes from first list

Post by Mike Gunn » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:42 pm

There is some information on page 33 of the "When is the new grading list coming out?" thread.

Ian Lamb
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Ian Lamb » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:47 pm

just seems a fiasco having learned people grades i now find that some have changed what a mess!!!.

Ian Lamb
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having learned quite a few grades from last list.

Post by Ian Lamb » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:49 pm

i now see there been changes what a fiasco this is really what was the point of the first list at all if any?

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John Upham
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Re: the grade changes from first list

Post by John Upham » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:51 pm

Ian Lamb wrote:i see brandon clarke gone down to 201 in second list
Ian,

Can you list each of all the other changes and give them an individual thread on this forum please?

I think we would all appreciate this.

See http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-forum-etiquette.htm for help on this and other matters.

Your keyboard problem is not yet resolved by the looks of things...
Last edited by John Upham on Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ian Lamb
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Re: the grade changes from first list

Post by Ian Lamb » Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:53 pm

thanks for that Mr Gunn.

Sean Hewitt

Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Sean Hewitt » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:02 pm

Ian Lamb wrote:just seems a fiasco having learned people grades i now find that some have changed what a mess!!!.
Ian, Every year a provisional list is published at the end of July / begginning of August and every year the finalised official lsit is published at the end of August.

Every year there are changes from the provisional list to the official list. That's why it's called the provisional list. This year is no different in that regard.

The provisional list is useful for a number of reasons

1 - For congress organisers running August events
2 - For players wanting to play August / September events to know roughly what their grade is
3 - For counties to work out how many teams to enter and which sections
4 - For clubs to decide which players should go in which team

I could go on, but I hope I don't need to. :D

Roger de Coverly
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Re: having learned quite a few grades from last list.

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:13 pm

Ian Lamb wrote:what was the point of the first list at all if any?
It enabled many of the "are you sure this is right" issues to be raised.

In the original project plan, all of this was supposed to be sorted out last year. The "red grades" were published for 2008 this time last year - the junior grades in particular were identified as lacking plausability. Evidently the grading team thought so as well so we had another list in Feb/Mar 2009. A fluke error identified something seriously wrong with the juniors on that list as well. After that almost complete silence from the grading team both on the 2008 red grades and their proposed changes to methodology. That is until August this year when we learn that without no public debate and limited authorisation from the ECF board and ECF Council, they are making changing at least one of the fundamental premises of the grading system. I refer to the feature that if you have played people with published grades, you can work out your event performance by adding up the grades of your opponents, adding 50* the excess of wins over losses and dividing by the number of games. If you play any juniors, you can no longer do this - because their published grade will be ignored in the calculation of your next season's grade.

Roger de Coverly
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Roger de Coverly » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:21 pm

Sean Hewitt wrote:Every year there are changes from the provisional list to the official list.
But particularly with Richard Hadrell's iron grip of data going into the system, the changes between the end-July and end-August lists were not much more than the odd missing event or the odd player misidentification. They weren't trying to overthrow 40 years of theory of the grading list as they were going along.

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Carl Hibbard » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:30 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:It would help if our text speaking contributor would confirm which of the many meanings he intended to express!
Some of the posts have been deleted, they added little to the debate and were in fact derogatory
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Richard Bates
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Re: having learned quite a few grades from last list.

Post by Richard Bates » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:40 pm

having learned quite a few grades from the draft list
Some sort of unusual memory challenge?

Neill Cooper
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Neill Cooper » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:13 pm

Having downloaded both the provisional list and the latest list, I have now compared junior grades.
There were 230 juniors aged 11 to 17 with a standard A grade.
Of these 85 have had a fall of 5 points, 29 a fall of 4 points and also 29 a fall of 6 points.
Less than 10 have an increase in grade. The mean is -3.8.
All 26 11 year olds had a fall in grade, of between 2 and 7

Conversely of the 34 under 11s with an A grade 18 have an increase in grade and only 3 a fall (of 1 point). Their mean is 1.3.

I suspect that between the two releases there was a change in the application of the junior correction (which should be 10 for under 10s and 5 for 11 to 17s), so that relative to the U11s, over 11s fell by 5 points.

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:31 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:
It would help if our text speaking contributor would confirm which of the many meanings he intended to express!

Carl Hibbard wrote -"Some of the posts have been deleted, they added little to the debate and were in fact derogatory"

Well Carl - what I said wasn't derogatory. I merely clarified that the word "gay" was also used nowadays to express disappointment! It seems pointless deleting some of my post, if what it referred to was no longer there, why not remove all of it?
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:39 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:Kevin Thurlow wrote:
It would help if our text speaking contributor would confirm which of the many meanings he intended to express!

Carl Hibbard wrote -"Some of the posts have been deleted, they added little to the debate and were in fact derogatory"

Well Carl - what I said wasn't derogatory. I merely clarified that the word "gay" was also used nowadays to express disappointment! It seems pointless deleting some of my post, if what it referred to was no longer there, why not remove all of it?
I was referring to the original post but yes of course you are right the lot should have been removed, sorry :oops:
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

Kevin Thurlow
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Kevin Thurlow » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:03 pm

I was referring to the original post but yes of course you are right the lot should have been removed

That's Ok - I know you have to deal with a lot of tripe!
"Kevin was the arbiter and was very patient. " Nick Grey

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Carl Hibbard
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Re: When is the new grading list coming out?

Post by Carl Hibbard » Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:08 pm

Kevin Thurlow wrote:I was referring to the original post but yes of course you are right the lot should have been removed

That's Ok - I know you have to deal with a lot of tripe!
It's a fine line and hard to judge, I had no real objection to the original post apart from it being off topic and rather childish but then I received a couple of separate complaints...

Hard work this, it really is :(
Cheers
Carl Hibbard

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