Adjourned games should not be rated?

[John Upham]

I intend to start the ball rolling with a proposal that games adjourned will not be rated by the ECF.

This is already true for FIDE events as no games are adjourned any longer.

Do you have an opinion on this?

Are you someone who reaches an ending but has no idea how to continue and prefers to "phone a friend" or let Fritz or some other engine show you how to play the position?

Would this potential rule change dissuade you from forcing adjournment on your unlucky opponent?

John

[Chris Majer]

I intend to start the ball rolling with a proposal that games adjourned will not be rated by the ECF.

John, ECF Council in April discussed grading of adjudicated games The meeting expressed the view that such games should be graded. The case for not grading adjourned games seems much weaker. I can't see that Council would be interested in changing the status quo.

[John Upham]

Chris,
What was the case for not rating adjourned games?

Is this in the public domain?

What is the case for not rating adjudicated games?

John

[Chris Majer]

What was the case for not rating adjourned games?
Is this in the public domain?
What is the case for not rating adjudicated games?

John, the FIDE laws of chess list the means of determining the result of a chess game (checkmate, loss on time, etc). As adjudications are not listed as a means of completing a chess game, they are contrary to the FIDE laws of chess. This argument didn't persuade Council of the need for change.

The FIDE laws of chess permit adjournments. Therefore any argument on grading of such games is based on the desirability of adjournments as opposed to the legality and therefore weaker. That however is my personal view not something that Council has debated.

[John Upham]

Chris,
What is our Chief Arbiter's opinion on this matter?

John

[Greg Breed]

This topic has come up in our League AGM's and there is some consensus for NOT grading adjournments OR adjudications because of the outside help that can and often does get used (computers mainly). However, as most of the players in our league are retired gentlemen, they don't fancy change and don't much use computers.

In more competitive and bigger leagues I think this may already be an enforced rule.

I believe it should be up to the League committee's to decide and they will generally go with a majority vote from the playing members.

[John Upham]

Greg,

It's very quaint and charming to have

"Local rules for local people" and also very English!

However, this problem needs to be dealt with nationally.

I believe it is only a matter of time.

[Sean Hewitt]

John,

Its obvious that adjourned and adjudicated games should not be graded. but it wont happen for two reasons

1) The old foggies who hold the votes proabably prefer these finishes and are against change in any event.

2) The ECF rape us for nearly £1 for every game graded. To agree not to grade certain types of grade would be akin to Turkeys voting for Christmas.

In Leicester, we pay over £1400 per year in game fee. Half of our games are subject to adjudication. So by agreeing to this change the ECF would be £700 worse off in Leicester alone.

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!

[Greg Breed]

Half of our games are subject to adjudication.

I'd go with a change of time control then to make games 'rapid-play finish'.

If players are unwilling or unable to make adjournments then they should expect to finish on the night.

To have so many adjudications means that players are doing it deliberately in my opinion, with the consent of both captains!

Why would anyone want someone else to decide half of all their games??
Either finish on the night or expect to finish it at another time I say.
I've always held that adjudications are a last resort and I believe that's the way it should be.

[Sean Hewitt]

Half of our games are subject to adjudication.

I'd go with a change of time control then to make games 'rapid-play finish'.

If players are unwilling or unable to make adjournments then they should expect to finish on the night.

To have so many adjudications means that players are doing it deliberately in my opinion, with the consent of both captains!

Why would anyone want someone else to decide half of all their games??
Either finish on the night or expect to finish it at another time I say.
I've always held that adjudications are a last resort and I believe that's the way it should be.

You misunderstand. Half of our games are played subject to adjudication. That doesnt mean that half of the games are adjudicated - just means that they would be if they were not finished on the night.

Of course for any exclusion to work, you would have to refuse to grade any game that was played subject to adjudication (or adjournment) - for the reasons mentioned earlier - regardless of whether the game was finished on the night or not.

I'm telling you guys. Turkeys and Christmas, it aint gonna happen!

[Joey Stewart]

I think the biggest problem to unrating adjournments would be that it has a new potential for abuse. If somebody had a really bad position which they were likely to lose, they could simply stall the game to the adjournment time and then get effectively let off the rating points they were set to lose - even if they did lose the game, their grade would be safe at the end of it all.

[John Upham]

This would not be a problem since when adjournments no longer are rated then players will not be willing to play such games.

I can't imagine half way through a game players will force the game to be adjourned to avoid having it rated.

John

[Charles W. Wood]

This would not be a problem since when adjournments no longer are rated then players will not be willing to play such games.

I can't imagine half way through a game players will force the game to be adjourned to avoid having it rated.

John

The Adjournment rule needs looking at not the grading if your going to loose anyway the best thing to happen is to have the game not graded. It a Loss loss situation. Is it me or is this harder than it looks.

[Greg Breed]

The Adjournment rule needs looking at not the grading if your going to loose anyway the best thing to happen is to have the game not graded. It a Loss loss situation. Is it me or is this harder than it looks.

It is harder than it seems Charles. Only this week I was playing a league match with rapid time controls (30 moves in 1 hour then 15 minute wind back) which had to be adjourned! What!? I hear you scream. It was due to an electrical emergency and all unfinished games had to be adjourned. It's a cracking game and I can't wait to resume it, but it would be unfair to not grade it due to a new rule. Herein lies the difficulty.

[Charles W. Wood]

The Adjournment rule needs looking at not the grading if your going to loose anyway the best thing to happen is to have the game not graded. It a Loss loss situation. Is it me or is this harder than it looks.

It is harder than it seems Charles. Only this week I was playing a league match with rapid time controls (30 moves in 1 hour then 15 minute wind back) which had to be adjourned! What!? I hear you scream. It was due to an electrical emergency and all unfinished games had to be adjourned. It's a cracking game and I can't wait to resume it, but it would be unfair to not grade it due to a new rule. Herein lies the difficulty.

I don't understand "Adjournments" apart from when someone thinks the game has a problem like cheating or a chess clock goes bad. I'm not great at high end rules so I never come across them. What are they used for?