2010 Grading list

General discussions about ratings.
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:41 am

Alexander Hardwick wrote:On an unofficial basis...what am I? :D I am probably the lowest on this thread, so if you want to make me up to 167 I promise I won't mind...
Hardwick, Alexander M and un-official 131
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:42 am

Joey Stewart wrote:Ohhhhh! That must be pretty gutting to miss out on 200 by one point - although i might end up with something similar, i cauculated myself to be 181 after 26 games but it might get dragged back to 179 when they round it up... Ill see tomorrow
Stewart, Joseph J and un-official 179
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:43 am

Go live is set for around 10am
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Carl Hibbard
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Carl Hibbard » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:31 am

The list is now live
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Daniel Young
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Daniel Young » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:33 am

Wow! Sutton Grammar grades have absolutely shot up! Sure, we're all juniors, but still...

Richard Bates
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Richard Bates » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:52 am

The average of the top 100 players has gone up 3pts.

Simon (S) - no hiding on the middle boards of the Middlesex team any more! :lol:

Paul McKeown
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Paul McKeown » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:04 pm

Richard Bates wrote:Simon (S) - no hiding on the middle boards of the Middlesex team any more! :lol:
Yes, he's shot up to an unearthly 218, 53rd ranked English player!

Hurrah! (Y)

Simon Spivack
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Simon Spivack » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:17 pm

But I want to win the Martin Blaine Trophy again. It's not fair. ;)

Thanks for your kind words.

Brian Valentine
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Brian Valentine » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:34 pm

This note crosses several threads; I've put it here so John Saunders does not have to read it!

It's a view of the situation following the grading changes last time, but was driven by a combination of Adam's proposal for more regular grading lists and poor weather affecting my planned activities
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Adam Raoof
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Adam Raoof » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:49 pm

Thanks Brian! I have passed this to the grading team.

I am a mathematical ignoramus. In layman's terms, I see from your conclusions that publishing a list twice a year would not be harmful. Is that fair?

As a service, it may even encourage new players as it will enable them to get a grade relatively quickly. It means that if players enter a tournament, they will be using more up to date grades than are available at present. (Bring forward to reach a total of 30 games, perhaps make it 15 for an A grade?'

Bear in mind that we are one of the few remaining countries in the world that only publishes one standard list a year.
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:39 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:I see from your conclusions that publishing a list twice a year would not be harmful. Is that fair?
I think Brian is proposing that the story so far could be published but this would not be used in calculations and would change (a bit) with every new result processed.

Adam Raoof wrote:As a service, it may even encourage new players as it will enable them to get a grade relatively quickly.
To make this work, you would have to revisit the process of estimation of new grades (and juniors). If an estimated player has played another estimated player their end season grade is changing even without playing.

Brian mentions the issue of active players. General reasoning suggests that active players usually play against other active players as they're the ones who play in all the leagues and congresses. On my own grading print I have just one E and 9 D's from 107 games. 27 with " * " though - mostly active juniors with the odd foreign FM/WGM.

Brian Valentine
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Brian Valentine » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:02 pm

Adam Raoof wrote:I am a mathematical ignoramus. In layman's terms, I see from your conclusions that publishing a list twice a year would not be harmful. Is that fair?
Adam,
I guess this question and subsequent correspondence should be on another thread. My views at present would be as follows:
*The administration requires a huge sea change in the way things are done and you may like to think of going for a real time interim list (possibly archiving it at fixed points through the year to fix new entrants and junior grades for some purposes).
* There will be meaningful information for adult " Category A" players although they tend to have stable grades anyway
* The grades for adult Categories D&E and even most Cat Cs are unlikely to change much since most of their games that count are in the calculation set before the beginning of the year. The current approach might need review - maybe the last 30 games could be used in these cases (not an original idea).
* The benefits providing an early grade for new entrants and juniors must be substantial (based on anecdotes on other threads). If the iteration approach was switched to the Matrix method I have defined elsewhere the junior approach could be real time in a practical way. However I am concerned that even over a year there are a series of "lighthouses" significantly influenced by very few links to the "mainland" list. This situation is considerably worse if the datasets and related links gets smaller. The junior method, in my view, would need re-thinking.

In summary it could be done in a harmless way, but while the appearances might be impressive the results apart from for new entrants would be of limited use. Leaving the junior calculation as it is would give reliable results on average, but the jumping about ( when not active) and the huge changes a few results could give will tarnish its acceptance.

Paul Bielby
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Paul Bielby » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:50 pm

I have been following the Heraklion Open Tournament in Crete this week. (Two NE players, Paul Townsend (York) and Tim Adams (Jesmond) are taking part, wiith Paul sharing the lead on 5/6 at the moment).

But one feature of this tournament interests me with regard to ratings. As well as all the normal 1st, 2nd, 3rd prizes, etc. they offer quite substantial prizes for PERFORMANCE - RATING (i.e a players rating performance in the tournament minus their initial rating) This is an idea I have not seen before. Does anybody know of this happening in any tournaments in this country? It would work perfectly well with gradings, I think. In the Cretan tournament it seems to take the place of our hierarchy of Major, Intermediate and Minor Tournaments - everybody plays in one big competition. This could well have some advantages.

E.g. Player A of grade 151 might have to play in an Major and player B of 149 be able to play in the Intermediate in one of our tournaments - A would have a much harder task and yet B would be far more likely to win a prize. The Cretan system does away with such artificial boundaries. What do forum members think of this?
Last edited by Paul Bielby on Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IM Jack Rudd
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by IM Jack Rudd » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:52 pm

It's the way grading prizes are done in the British Championship; it works well there.

Alex Holowczak
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Re: 2010 Grading list

Post by Alex Holowczak » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:58 pm

You'll be surprised at how much people will complain if you can't guarantee them a roughly even game. If they're all in one big tournament, they'll be put off from entering.