Grading levels

General discussions about ratings.
Dr Andrew Cula

Grading levels

Post by Dr Andrew Cula » Tue May 13, 2008 2:02 am

What grade denotes a competent player, beginner or tournament player?

if a player tells me he is 60, 80, 120 or 150 what "label" would you assign to him?

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Greg Breed
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Re: Grading levels

Post by Greg Breed » Tue May 13, 2008 2:26 am

That depends on how you define competent?
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Greg Breed
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Re: Grading levels

Post by Greg Breed » Tue May 13, 2008 2:30 am

I would go something like this:
50 = Beginner
80 = low Club Player
110 = med-low Club Player
140 = med Club Player
170 = high Club Player
200 = Master
220 = International Master
240 = Grandmaster
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Nigel Wright
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Re: Grading levels

Post by Nigel Wright » Tue May 13, 2008 3:09 pm

I'd say between 90-100 is your average club player

20-30 beginner / average school level

50+ you've mastered the basics, and can give anyone a decent game, but are theoretically unsound
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John Moore
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Re: Grading levels

Post by John Moore » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:56 pm

Dunno about 200 being master level - even this incompetent has been close to that in years past and people would have laughed if you'd said I was a master. Maybe 215 is a good place to put it but then next year don't all the 200s become 215 or something like anyway. I'd have thought if I was 215, I might be a bit annoyed about all my slightly weaker brethren suddenly joining me - or am I missing the whole point. Roger will soon put me right but I don't want to get into all the statistical stuff I don't understand!

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Greg Breed
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Re: Grading levels

Post by Greg Breed » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:40 pm

In a year and a bit I'll have to edit my second post above and revise everything. A beginner will then be 100!! -ish
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Roger de Coverly
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Re: Grading levels

Post by Roger de Coverly » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:51 pm

I'd have thought if I was 215, I might be a bit annoyed about all my slightly weaker brethren suddenly joining me - or am I missing the whole point. Roger will soon put me right but I don't want to get into all the statistical stuff I don't understand!
What's happening is a clean sheet of paper and the results for the past few years. So it's as if you went back to the 1950's and decided to invent a grading system. They have a model which you feed results to. Initially you start everybody off at the same number (it doesn't matter what). You then calculate grades from the file of results using the usual +50 for a win. If you started everybody at 100 this might give Mark Hebden 140. You then feed these results back into the system and repeat. This time Mark comes out at 180. You carry on doing this until you get the same answer for consecutive computer runs. You then add or subtract an arbitrary value to base the system in line with current grades. Whether you would expect this process to reproduce the real world grades is in my mind an open question. The real world has various adjustments for junior increments, 40 point rule and players with less than 30 games.

With a clean sheet though, they can set the level of grades to be anything they want them to be. What they have done is to keep Mark Hebden's level more or less constant. What's claimed is that if you redo the calculations from scratch, you end up moving everybody closer to Mark but players with grades of 100 move closer than those of 150. We're not going to know for sure until Howard Grist and the rest of the team publish some results to chew over. It's also possible that some ancient regional anomalies might be proved or disproved.

I suspect that if you make fish fatter, the sharks will feast - so in the future if the changes go through, top grades will rocket off into the distance.

Actually John you've lost about 14 points since 1994 whereas I haven't - so it is claimed that your grade had deflated and needed pumping up. So you get back a 175 ish grade and I might get a career best over 190. However there will be 130 players suddenly with career best 150 grades. It's going to muck up all the grading restricted competitions, for example the Essex under 175 team will find themselves only in the Open team unless the ECF/SCCU change the u175 to u190.

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Re: Grading levels

Post by John Moore » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:01 pm

Brilliant Roger - I knew you'd explain it to someone with a non - Maths degree. I expect to be a very fat fish for the sharks - if I get too close to one. Why have I lost 14 points and you haven't - must be our choice of lager!

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Re: Grading levels

Post by Mick Norris » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:36 am

Roger de Coverly wrote: .... However there will be 130 players suddenly with career best 150 grades. It's going to muck up all the grading restricted competitions, for example the Essex under 175 team will find themselves only in the Open team unless the ECF/SCCU change the u175 to u190.
In the first year, the "old" grades will be published alongside the "new" ones and the grading restricted competitions will use the "old" grades

Competetions will then have a year to work out the changes needed to their grading limits

This could be simply to make the change U175 becomes, say, U190, or a better idea would be to use it as an opportunity to make the spread of competitions (Open, U175, U150, U125, U100) more even - at present their are fewer players in the 150-174 bracket than in the other sections, so maybe you move to, say, Open, U180, U155, U130, U105
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Sean Hewitt

Re: Grading levels

Post by Sean Hewitt » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:43 pm

Mick Norris wrote: In the first year, the "old" grades will be published alongside the "new" ones and the grading restricted competitions will use the "old" grades

Competetions will then have a year to work out the changes needed to their grading limits

This could be simply to make the change U175 becomes, say, U190, or a better idea would be to use it as an opportunity to make the spread of competitions (Open, U175, U150, U125, U100) more even - at present their are fewer players in the 150-174 bracket than in the other sections, so maybe you move to, say, Open, U180, U155, U130, U105
Sensible as always Mr Norris!